How to CONNECT through creativity and build meaningful relationships.
Rory Langdon-Down is a London-based photographer and winner of the British Journal of Photography’s Portrait of Humanity and Portrait of Britain, focussing on human-led storytelling through photography.
Packed into this episode you'll discover;
🎤What Stormzy, Lewis Capaldi, Little Sims and Tom Odell have in common.
🗣️How everyone has a story to tell and photography can help draw it out.
💪The power of your own personal creative projects.
🙌How to connect with strangers.
💦Why Ed Sheeran suggests turning the tap on.
📷How a photograph isn't made in the camera, it's made either side of it.
📖How to tell a story in a still image.
A broadcast journalism graduate from the University of Leeds in 2012, Rory’s photography is grounded in realness with a style established in the motion camera department shooting documentaries, music videos and commercials.
In 2021, Rory photographed a different person every day for a year, which lead to his debut book ‘Portrait A Day’ that told the story of the unique year through the people that surround us.
Rory is inspired by the notion that a portrait is not made in the camera, it is made either side of it and the meaningful engagement between subject and photographer shows in the photographs.
Learn more about Louise's Art After Dark workshops
Links to things we talk about in the show:
Biffy Clyro: Cultural Sons of Scotland
Biffy Clyro - Space (Orchestral Version) - Recorded at Abbey Road
Portrait a Day Instagram Account
The Guardian Newspaper article on Portrait a Day
Get creating with Rory's Social Portraiture suggestion!
Easy version - Use any camera at your disposal and take a photograph of someone you know, posed in a way that is natural to them and perhaps means something to both of you.
Hard version - Take a photograph of a stranger like Rory did in Portrait a day!
Transcript
Rory Langdon Down
[00:00:00] In the whole project and I still think about now, but , the idea that every single person around you, could have incredible stories. and she literally looked like she was in the 1920s. I
and as I was taking a photograph, the guy turned up on the first date this whole, awkward dynamic, completely unraveled at that exact moment. You were there. Oh, I, I have watched that video . I do not know how many times
Louise: Hello, and I'm delighted to welcome you to another episode of my podcast, art After Dark, where we explore the transformative impact of the arts on mind, body, and soul. I'm your host, Louise Emily, an artist on a mission to shed light on the power. Of human creativity.
Rory London Down is a London based photographer and winner of the British Journal of Photography's Portrait of Humanity and Portrait of Britain, focusing on human led storytelling through photography. A broadcast journalism graduate from the University of Leeds in 2012. Rory's Photography is grounded in realness with the style established in the motion camera department, shooting documentaries, music [00:01:00] videos, and commercials.
He's worked with artists who are creative heroes to many, including Lewis Capaldi, stormy Biffy, Clyro Chase, and Status Little Sims, and has just got back from going on tour with Tom O'Dell. In 2021, Rory photographed a different person every day for a year, which led to his debut book Portrait Today that told the story of a unique year through the people that surround us.
Rory is inspired by the notion that a portrait is not made in the camera. It's made either side of it, and the meaningful engagement between subject and photographer shows in the photographs. As you can see, darkness has fallen. So it's time to welcome Rory to the forest.
Welcome Rory. Hi, Louise. Thanks having me.
Hi. Oh, thanks for coming. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here. So, are you all packed and ready to go into the forest? I am all packed, yes. Brilliant. Can you share with us what you've got in your bag? Well, I almost always carry a backpack and always have done
so right now I've got a [00:02:00] massive roll top dry bag, which is like a bottomless pit in itself. Anyway, so that's what I'm taking it is waterproof as well, which is ideal. , and inside my snack, my snacks, I don't dunno if this counts as a snack, I'm taking weer bits and it's , might not sound like a snack to many people, but it is the thing I eat the most of by a long way.
I have many, many bowls of this, like two bowls, at least a day of weer bits. And how, how many, how many do you have in one go? I've actually cut down a bit because I got a bit embarrassed about how much I was eating. So now I'm down to three in a bowl, sometimes four. It used to be even more than that as well.
, that must be a big bowl. And it's also a wheatabix branded bowl, which my wife bought me a couple of years ago. And that comes with me sometimes when I go and shoot. Sometimes I'll take it with me if I'm staying away from home because I kind of legitimize it as like it's a.
Healthy-ish snack. So, , I use that as my go-to rather than anything, you know, much worse than me. Well, I, I do understand that because I have wea BS every [00:03:00] morning as do my children. I mean, even when I go away, I'll try and find, we bits abroad or they're equivalent. I went to Italy and my friend said, is there anything that you need? And it was, we bit, it's like a common rider. Maybe it's a creative rider.
Do. You pimp yours up? I, I put, , raisins and seeds on mine or do you just have it pure, pure traditionalist, just milk and a little, little bit of sugar? A little bit. Not too much. My wife thinks I have quite a lot, but it's not that much.
Brilliant. Great. And what was your drink? My drink is going to be a Capri Sun. Because I don't think there's much I drink other than water that often. However, if I'm ever hungover, I'll always go and get Capra sun. I dunno why it's enough sugar. , quite, quite a pack packaging, , makes me feel like I'm a child.
So, , yeah. Have you been drinking last night then? Rory? Are you hungover coming to No, no, no. I have not. I'm not hungover at all. Isn't, but lemme see. Just energy. like a Kendall mink cake or something. Exactly. Yeah. Perfect. Yes. So that's what I'm taking. All right. Well you sound absolutely ready to go.
can you light the [00:04:00] path by sharing with us creation number one? , creation number one is the fifth, which is a short film I made with a group of school friends. I didn't go to a very creative school at all. It was quite, quite an academic school, but a lot of my friends all ended up going into down sort of creative paths.
And after university we all thought it'd be quite fun to enter a 48 hour film competition. I'd never ever done anything like it before. And we set out over 48 hours to.
Shoot and edit and deliver this film. The brief we were given was capture and Relive, , it was for Rain Dance, which was quite a big film festival in London.
Yeah. , a lot of people had gone for quite literal, , interpretations of capture and reliv, whereas we, and I can't really claim much responsibility over this 'cause I don't remember who came up with the idea, but decided to go down this route of, , of someone who was, , deaf, capturing sounds, just everyday sounds sound of, , pub, , , crowds, A skate park train going over a bridge.
Just things which you might encounter every day. The guy was deaf. Yeah. The guy was deaf. it culminates with the [00:05:00] film cutting goes silent and someone walks in and signs Tim at, which probably realize he was capturing sound and reliving it through the vibrations and the speakers.
We liked what we'd done. I mean, we'd had a really good 48 hours, not really slept.
, and then it ended up winning that competition. , and I think, I mean, what we won was, I think we all won a mobile phone. I can't remember what it was. I think I sold it so I could have, have some money to pay rent. , and it just gave me the first taste of kind of what success you could have by making something and making stuff with friends.
, and I thought, oh, this is quite appealing. , so yeah, that's my first creation I take with me.
What were the comments from the judges? Why did they say that the film won? , that's a good question.
, there were some which were made with much higher quality than, than we had by better teams, , and more polished people. But I think I. This is what I maintain in all my work, the most important thing was our story was better there were people who had, done a hostage situation of, of capture and relive, and it was a bit on the nose.
Mm-hmm. It was really well done over 48 hours, you know, filmed to a higher quality than ours was. But I think [00:06:00] what was brilliant was having people realize that the story of R one and the meaning of R one was, was better and that was really nice and sort of validating.
. Yeah. So that kind of lit the spark. And, , I was looking at one of your other films called Village, what we'll include all of the references that we make today in the, show notes. Do you wanna just tell us a little bit about Village and how, that came about and the story there?
Yeah. He's a guy, he's now my friend, he's called Village. , and the reason he's called Village, is because when he was a kid, he, , was playing football on Brighton Pier and the ball went over the pier and he jumped over the pier to go and get the ball back for his mates.
And everyone said he was a village idiot. So it's stuck since then. , it actually came about in, in a similar vein to sort of realizing how you could find stories around you. I was on a shoot, doing a documentary for the B B C about the FA Cup and I was at Barnett Football Club and it was around Christmas time in 2018 and , I was in a cafe and he was wander around outside and he looked basically identical to Father Christmas.
I ended up shooting a portrait of him at the time. The film I went on to make shortly after I first met him, , was really about [00:07:00] him as a person. So this year he turns 80, , and he lost his wife in 2011, just before Christmas.
And at that time he decided, I'm gonna allow myself to become Father Christmas as a sort of funny. Way of remembering a period, which is really sad for him. So he now carries a father Christmas hat with him everywhere he goes. Even, you know, you catch him in middle of summer and he'll have one with him just in case.
You know, a kid kind of looks at him. 'cause he really does look like Father Christmas. Yeah, he does. , and he has some really amazing passions. He's hugely passionate about reggae and scar music, and he often sits outside a reggae shop in Camden. , and he's become quite a, an icon
And I made this portrait film, it's about six minutes long, just about village and what it means to find happiness and what sort of keeps him going.
And he, he talks about his connection to humans and other people being the thing that's kept him going since his wife died. , and since then, we have stayed in quite regular contact. I had, , the first portrait I ever made of him turned into a thousand piece jigsaw, , and sent it to him and he turned it into jigsaw and glued it down. And then I took a [00:08:00] portrait of him holding that one up and turned that one into a jigsaw.
And I've continued to do that. And now the. Kaleidoscope of jigsaws and village extends to about five portraits and each one's a thousand piece puzzle and each one is holding up the next one.
Unfortunately, he kind of finished his puzzles so quickly and he actually, they're not cheap, so I have to slow down how quickly I get them maid again. , but he's very, very quick.
Yeah, he's a wizard. Having watched the film, it made me really nostalgic actually, because he's got lots of trinkets, hasn't he, in his house. And, you can feel the story almost as you just pan round his kitchen it reminded me of my maternal grandmother's home I guess it, it was that era. , and , it's a very moving story I found because, clearly misses his wife in every fiber of his being. , but it's inspirational. 'cause he found a way by doubling down into his passions and then connecting through jigsaws
, I thought it was a really beautiful story and just a really good example of the way that you're just so observant.
And the fact that you connected with him and you didn't [00:09:00] know him, and it, and it's led to this. It's a really beautiful tale of, , connecting through the arts and how you can maintain that over time. Yeah, definitely. , I think that was a good thing for me at the time.
I hadn't really gone up to them that many people before and stopped people for taking a, a picture. And,, like I said, I was doing a documentary, but the best thing to come out of that was me meeting Village, not the work I was doing. It was something else which happened alongside that.
, and he, said at the end of the film I made with him, , that he does everything for connection and to make people smile. And he said, if I didn't, Think I could do that. I dunno what I would be doing with my life. And I think that's something he lives by. Yeah. , is really, you know, those connections and stuff.
And in fact, Christmas just gone. He lives up in North London, so I went and visited him then , he put on his full father Christmas outfit and we went for a walk.
Just him and I, I'm quite, can be quite a sort of a self-conscious person about people staring . And actually it was really good for me, I think because he just didn't care and all he was doing was spreading joy. It wasn't connect at all. , but you know, I sat down and had a [00:10:00] coffee outside, , in Muswell Hill with him.
And, , he was just, sat there whilst everyone was just staring at me and Father Christmas. Oh my God. My friend lives in Muswell Hill. I might have to come down at Christmas and just hang out. He might see him. Yeah,. And so speaking of motion, so, you've worked with, people who are creative heroes to many. You , just came back , from being on tour with Tom O'Dell, little Sims, , you've done a documentary with Stormy Louis Capaldi, the list goes on. So, , it's very interesting to me when you think about creativity, what can you tell us about those, those creatives? Are there common threads?
That you'd draw out that you see in common? perfectionism I think is one of the things, and I think actually sometimes I can rush a lot of the stuff I do. , I quite like getting the satisfaction of other people seeing my work quite quickly when it could do with it having a bit more, , time that goes into it.
Yeah. And I think that some of those people I've worked with are, well, firstly, there's, there's just an innate talent. There's people, you know, I've been lucky enough to be in a room where, you know, ality singing for example, and , [00:11:00] his voice, the sound of it and the emotion in it is incredible. Yeah. You know, when you're, when you are in the same space as someone like that.
, but then I think perfectionism, you know, being in studios with lots of artists, I'll hear them record a note or, play a section of their track and I'll think, oh yeah, that's done in the bag on we go and they'll go and listen to it and they'll do it 50 more times because it wasn't exactly how they, and, you know, , maybe it would've been fine to most people , on the first, , recording, but for them they needed to perfect it , for lots of reasons.
And it just sort of sets a precedent with their work, I think. . , so I think that that is one of the things which really unifies a lot of people, , at, at that level. Yeah. And that goes to for, for being in, you know, I, one of the places I actually love being because I love music. I'm not a musician myself.
I love it. I love being around music and I've been very lucky to work with lots of musicians and I get to work at Abbey Road or have done a few times and being in a room with people who are, , I. Session orchestra musicians, like one of my favorite things is, which they always think it's weird, but when they warm up and they're all getting in tune, you can have [00:12:00] 30 or 50 people in the room and they're all tuning up and it, to them it just sounds awful.
But they all start tuning their instruments at the same time and eventually it kind of hits this point where they all just sort of hit, and it sounds musical, at least to me. And I just think that is the most incredible thing. And it's not, it's, it's every single person in that whole orchestra is being a perfectionist, not just, you know, the composer or, or the person who wrote the music.
Oh, I love, yeah, I can imagine. I love that anecdote. I mean, it's almost like , because they all, they are practicing a lot on their own, so coming together and then suddenly being in sync, it must be quite powerful because they suddenly drop in together and they're in harmony. Yeah, it's absolutely, it is incredible.
That's my favorite thing, and that's, not, when they're recording or anything, that's literally just them trying to get, you know, the strings in tune or, , all the brass and stuff in, in sync and finding their key. , but yeah, it's incredible.
. Fantastic. And that, perfectionism point's really interesting actually. 'cause often people are like, oh, you know, with creativity, , just get going. Just get stuck in, so there's [00:13:00] that openness to begin with. But it sounds like when it comes to recording, there's that perfection making it on point. There's a time and a place for perfectionism basically.
Yeah. And I think, that absolutely the whole process doesn't need to be that tight because I think it was, I think I've heard Ed Shean talk about this and him saying, he found it necessary to, , to get to the good music, you've got to go through the bad stuff.
Like, you know, he's got to just turn the tap on and just let stuff. Flow when he's recording or writing, and then the good stuff will often come with that. But if he tries to only write the good stuff, it will block everything else. And I thought, you know, I think that is definitely true. You know, there's people I've worked with recently who I was chatting to , the drummer in Tom Adele's band.
We stood at, , an airport as the luggage was come, coming round, and he just took his phone out and started taking recording. He said it was just the rhythm of the, , baggage delivery thing, just going. And he said, it's not quite perfect.
There's something mechanical there, but it's also a bit sort of human. And I said, oh, you do that a a [00:14:00] lot. And he showed me his phone and he had 2,500 different sounds. He said, I don't often go back to them, but the process of recording for, for him was something that helped him. , he's called Toby and it was, it was something that helped Toby , Just kind of get inspired, I think, by everything around him.
And I think, you know, the, you know, notes and voice notes and stuff from people's phones, particularly musicians, I think they'd be stacked full of ideas. Some of them seconds long and some of them fully fledged, you know, concepts. Yeah, I relate to that. 'cause it's, it's, it's there and then it's gone.
, so you do need to kind of capture it at that moment, don't you? Because otherwise , you'll miss it. And then it's reassuring. You've got this bank, like mine's obviously for painting, it's, there's a lot of photographs and it could just be anything, the way the lights cast on something.
And it might not end up in that way, but it's just something that's reassuring. You think I've got it, you know, it's safe. Yeah. I, I do it , , with poses quite a lot and they could be from anything, but I work with people all the time and it's, it can be quite tricky sometimes to, to pose people. The hardest time to pose people is when they're just a standing shot somewhere.
Yeah. 'cause [00:15:00] it's like, what are they gonna do with their hands and things like that. And so if I go to, you know, galleries or looking through a magazine or a book or something, I quite often take photos just to see, you know, different ways you might be able to pose someone, keeping it natural, but giving them something to do in, in the image.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, , great at having . My, my own photograph taken and I often don't know what to do with my hands, so it's difficult. Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard. I, I actually hate having my photo taken as well. , which is why I was behind the camera, which is great.
Yeah, exactly. It's a good way to not be in shot. brilliant. , so have you seen with those artists or just generally any frustrations that that come out and how do they overcome those frustrations?,
I think when it comes to playing live, you do get quite a good idea of a good crowd and a bad crowd.
I was at a gig in North London for quite a big artist. But it was a semi corporate thing where there was this corporate sponsor.
So I think a lot of the people who'd gone to this gig didn't really care about the artist. And the leading in his band. Rightly so, really [00:16:00] lost it with the crowd because he could hear them talking throughout the, it was an acoustic set of quite a heavy band.
And, , yeah, he lost it. And I, and I thought kind of good, like, why have you come here? Yeah. There's, there's a lot of really, really keen fans here at the front and you're just ruining everyone's night. So you see then that, the frustration is there for the artist is they like their music to be heard in the way that they want to present it.
So I think , , it's that, , level of control from start to finish of writing that, you know, artists want to have and there's an element , which they would lose when playing live.
, sometimes, but if you lose it in that degree, I can imagine it being very frustrating.
yeah, exactly. And so much that goes into the creative process that's partly why I wanna expose that so people realize all of the different, you know, the value of it essentially. So I can imagine that frustration if you are there, , one of the reasons people create is to connect.
And it's like a complete rejection if you are not being heard. , and the best gigs, I've ever been at are when they have a really great connection. There's plenty of artists who don't go outta the way to [00:17:00] do that, , with the crowd and the crowd can get frustrated or whatever.
But yeah, by far the best is when there's a connection made some good artists do that every single night for years. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Because you are really all about that human led storytelling, how much can you kind of tell the story of these, more famous people? Are you still able to do that And if, and if so, how do you tell the story when you're on tour or when you're shooting something that isn't , as much in your control?
That's actually the thing which I love doing by far the most. I love all of the moments before they go on stage and all the moments just after. , and to use Tom Adell as an example, , who I've just been working with, I met him last year on a documentary, And I met Tom in his studio before shooting it just to see if we got on, which I loved that he wanted to do that. I thought that was amazing because he'd written a really personal album and he needs to make sure that the people, who are gonna tell that story, he actually connected with.
And him and I got on very well in that first meeting. And then I was sort of invited into space for a few days [00:18:00] and to film it with him. And we got on really well and it was, I mean, I really loved it. I'm also just, I'm always in awe of anyone who can do anything. But Tom, just sitting at piano playing piano was , amazing.
And then recently I've just been on tour and I've never actually shot any tour photography before myself.
They said, can you fly out to Germany tomorrow? I was like, oh my God. , yes, I think I can. I did four shows and spent six days a couple of nights on a tour bus, which I'd never done before either, which is quite intimidate.
That's exciting. It's exciting. It's quite intimidating getting on being like a new kid. But, , yeah, every single person in his whole team were as loved. Tears and it was the nicest brief ever because essentially it was just bring your camera and.
Do your thing. That was it. I, I didn't get any more notes from Tom or anything. We'd sit down after I shot stuff and he would, he's very, very creative. He's got a really great eye and he would say, , I like this. Or, you know, actually never, he said he didn't like anything. He just would tell me what he was really into.
, and then that was good feedback for the next night and then the rest [00:19:00] of it. And it was brilliant. So, so that for me was perfect because like I'd said, about a photograph not being made in the camera, but being made either side of it.
By far, the most important thing I did on that whole tour was just get on with everyone and then all of the photos, which came with it, I don't think that anyone else would've been able to take, they could have better kit than me, but I don't think that they would've got the same level of intimacy.
And also knowing when to step out they still need their normal routine before they go on stage and stuff. So jump in, take photos for five minutes and then remove myself from the situation. And understanding how you gauge that pace, I think was the most important thing.
, and I loved it. It was brilliant. I feel like I'm not done with it at all. I could go back and shoot that for a long time and continue to get new stuff, which is great.
Yeah, that's brilliant. , some of the shots I saw on your Instagram and you did a behind the shot and then the shot with him at the piano and that reflection in the, top of the piano is beautiful, so, yeah. Yeah. , it's really stunning.
So Rory, we discovered a mutual love for, , certainly one of my favorite bands, , Biffy Clyro.
, [00:20:00] so you've worked with Biffy, , I think the first time was when you were doing a documentary, , in 21, was it? In fact, the first time I ever worked at Abbey Road, ,
, I did one shoot day with them. They wouldn't remember, but it, for me, it was amazing. I was like, oh God. Abby Abbey Road for the first time, and with Biffy Kararo band I love. Wow. It was great. And it was recording an orchestral piece, , orchestral version of their song space, , which was amazing.
You were there. Oh, I, I have watched that video on YouTube. I do not know how many times it is one of the most uplifting videos
, and one of my favorite things about that day was at the end of the day, after the band, everyone had gone, we played the track out a rough mix, back into the studio. And me, the director,, d o p, and the first assistant camera, danced around the room listening to it.
It's a beautiful song, isn't it ? It's a really great song. It's stunning lyrics
So it was two day shoots to make that one video.
But we did it in, two hour sections. So you'll do brass, separate to strings, [00:21:00] separate to percussion, separate to band, things like that. But because you just can't have them in the same studio that, you know Yeah. Drummers can't be in the same studio as many other people. They just make too much noise.
I mean, it's so well edited in that case that they, you just think that they're all in there. Yeah. You have the secret of it. You have to be really careful about the angles you shoot the whole time,
to make it look like. Everyone was in the room at the same time, , I mean, just watching the video, it makes your hair stand on the back of your neck.
I dunno how it would've felt being there Must have just been, yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah, it really was. So that was the first time I, I'd worked with him. And then the director of that, , is a friend called Jack Lowe. , and he himself is a huge Biffy fan. He has Biffy, Clyro tattoos, and , he wanted to do this documentary, , about Biffy,
and the band writing this album, which they were recording, , back in Scotland, which they hadn't really done for years. Most of their albums had been recorded abroad, but again, COVID meant that they had to, return home to, air shere and, and record.
, and it's really fun because they were recording on this farm, which is basically where they've had their rehearsals [00:22:00] room, I think since when they just started out. And it is basic is anything.
That's funny. The, the farmer who runs it, I don think really cares that Biffy Clyro that uses the space and all that stuff, and it's literally like three best mates, which they are. They went to school together. In a room playing and writing music, and it's sort of nofrills at all.
, I did sort of three trips up to Scotland to shoot the documentary with them. And then I grew to be sort of a super fan of theirs, you know, one 'cause I was getting to know the music so well, but two, because they were just so nice and so welcoming.
, they made it really, really easy for us to shoot, , everything with them. We did an interview with each one of the band members and each interview was probably six hours long or something. So they were long, , wow. Long, long days. And, and they were really insightful. I mean, they talked about everything where they, you know, started out how Covid had been, how hard it had been, , A lack of purpose, the same as I kind of had at the time. You know, they [00:23:00] go out and they play music or they write music and all of a sudden they couldn't really do those things. , yeah. So it was really meaningful project to be a part of and made a really brilliant, I, I mean, I'm biased because I loved my whole experience of it, but I thought the documentary was really good and made me laugh a lot.
Yeah, exactly. And basically, they'd announced , the, they were, releasing another album, but because of lockdown, they recorded this because of all the frustrations.
It's just such a classic example of how. The band, and particularly Simon, he kind of processes his emotions and he needed to just sort of get it out. It certainly comes through in the documentary, which is just fantastic. And it's just classic Biffy. The lyrics are extremely deep and insightful and I think they, really speak to the human condition.
Yeah,
I remember talking to Simon a lot about people and humans. It was, it was in 2021, so I, by that point I was doing portrait a Day, which is, which we'll talk about, , in a bit. But, it really helped me and it's re-inspired me hearing him talk about how he was, either missing [00:24:00] connection or how he uses connection.
And then when the documentary came out, we went to an early screening with the band.
So they came about two or three hours earlier just to come and meet and hang out with us to catch up.
'cause we hadn't seen them since we'd finished filming and ,I gave them a copy of my book, which by that point was out. , and it was like the most heartfelt response as well from Simon when I gave it to him. We, we had talked about it before, , when I'd been taking the photos.
But you know, I then said, look, this is what I did. And it was so nice. And Simon's in the book as well.
He just comes across as just a really nice guy. I then went to the concerts, to Amsterdam to see , that tour.
, and then saw it in the ot and you do, you feel so connected because the fans are proper, , all in Biffy fans. , and it's the storytelling that, Simon manages to do in his songs. I think that really bring people in. And the Biffy concert.
You know, you're gonna have a great night, [00:25:00] whatever happens, you're gonna feel uplifted, you're gonna feel inspired every time. Yeah,
I would love to go and do what I've been doing for Tom O'Dell with Biffy and go and shoot some photos with them around their tour. Those moments before and after. I think I've seen a print or something of the three boys before they get out on stage and they've all got their arms around each other and it's really intimate and close.
And I think they do that before they get on stage each time. I always think of that being in that moment, that's like the most personal thing. And if you are lucky enough to have access to being there with a camera, because there's a difference between if you are, stood far away with a long lens camera and you're just covering an event as opposed to sort of being on right in the periphery, maybe even being part of that, , would be incredible.
And I'd love to go and shoot them. That emotion must be incredible, that feeling before. Well, and afterwards as well. Especially because they, you know, they've got that connection with you. So a bit like the Tommy Adele example, you've already got that connection. The photos are gonna be exceptional, I'm sure.
Love that. I really hope that happens. Love, I hope happens to be great. . Right. , so I think it's time to go [00:26:00] on to creation two. So creation two is portrait day, , which I suppose is one of the real, , pinnacle parts of what my career has been so far.
Portrait Day essentially is a book it's a coffee table book that I brought out at the, , end of 2021. , and it is a portrait of a different person every single day. From the whole of 2021 when we were kind of going in and out of lockdowns. It was, you know, height to pandemic.
And essentially it came about because, , I think it was new Year's Eve in 2020 by this point, you know, I'm self-employed, going out and shoots and stuff, and like many people , I'd lost work through long periods of time.
I really need to do something. I'm going completely crazy. So I had this idea of shooting a photograph, a portrait of someone every day for a year.
So I set up an Instagram page
how hard can it be? And I almost didn't even take a photograph on the first day. I, I, I couldn't even approach anyone. I was just, I didn't know how to do it. I felt stupid. I second guessed everything and I felt [00:27:00] really awkward. And then at the end of the day, I lived in Bathea at the time and I was walking back down the Thames and three kayakers were coming out of the water.
, and I thought maybe they're quite an easy target 'cause they've just done something, you know, it's New Year's day and you know, they're probably more likely to say yes. And so I took a portrait of, of one of the kayakers called Corbin and that was the first portrait. I uploaded it to Instagram, to my eight followers or something that day.
And I thought, oh, that's the first one. The name of the person in the photograph, the location and the date. And I wrote a sentence, this is Corbin after kayaking down the terms. And that was, that was Che one. And I kind of assumed I did the first one. I thought I'm gonna do this whole, it's gonna be hard, but I will do all of it.
And so day after day, I went out on long walks, really long walks. Sometimes when I could start traveling a bit more. It's all in the uk but I, I would get the train really far afield, quite often to Brighton. , 'cause it was quite easy to get down there. And I always thought Brighton was quite a, an interesting place to go and photograph all, all over London.
, some in Scotland because I was shooting the Biffy documentary at the same time. and then it slowly [00:28:00] snowballed and gathered into being a, you know, bigger than I thought it would be.
It got really engaged community and, , I never found it that easy approaching people. , even towards the end I struggled, , but I met 365 incredible people and it was brilliant. I love those videos that you've got, , on Instagram where you share your, approaching the person,
you can hear yourself , just chatting. You're so natural at it, and , I can almost feel their blood pressure drop and then they kind of relax into it. And it is , really interesting to see the way that you go about it, but also reassuring to know that actually you did have to pluck up coverage.
It doesn't necessarily come naturally to you. , no, it doesn't. I just think it is important to remember that even someone like yourself who's professional, you still second guess yourself.
You still have to egg yourself on and almost dare yourself by the sounds of it, to, to go and talk to people. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, going and speaking to a stranger is, is a bit of a strange thing to do.
The main takeaways I got were, I mean, this is so simple, [00:29:00] smile and be polite. , and then I think the main things I realized was to have a relatively small camera. Because again, it was about not intimidating people. Yeah. So I had it, it was always, , always on my shoulder. So it just hung across my body, kind of tucked underneath my arm. So like, I didn't, you know, a lot of the time I was, didn't really want it on, on display when I first approached people.
And then it meant that I could kind of chap him, bring the camera out, fire a few shots, put it back. That's so having a small, having small camera was, I, I don't think you could have really done it on a bigger camera. I think more people would've said no. , yeah. Otherwise it does, I can see what you mean about it feeling intimidating.
It feels almost like you're being like packed, you know, like it's like a journalist or something like that, but actually you are doing it in a much more artistic fashion. So. Yeah. And
Did it get easier, , , did I get I got better at it. So at the beginning I really didn't know what I was doing. What I got to.
, I would go up to people, and again, I have no idea if this is a good sales tactic or anything, but firstly go up and say hi, excuse me, my name's Rory.
So immediately introduce myself as quickly as possible. and then I'd say, [00:30:00] can I ask you a bit of a strange question?
'cause I think most people want to know what that question is. So their very first thing is, yeah, you can ask me a bit of a strange question and already your few sentences down the line, away from some sort of abrupt interaction. So say, okay, so I'm a photographer and I'm shooting a project called Portrait a Day.
I'm shooting a portrait with a different person every single day. , and I was wondering if I'd be able to take a portrait of you. If it was someone who was clearly doing something. So I took a photo of people roller skating outside the Tate that comes to mind, , or they're wearing something which is, bold. The cover of the book, Abdul, he's got a red, , wide Brit hat on. Something like that might be more used to being photographed and probably completely understand why. , someone wants to take a photograph even if it's not happened to 'em before.
But if you go up to someone and sat in the park bench who's reading a book and there's nothing particularly, unique on the outside about how they're dressed or what they're doing, they often will say, , why?
And I think you should always be able to justify that. , and the justification sometimes can be just saying, , I dunno, it [00:31:00] looks like I'm a peaceful moment or something. , or I'm interested in what book are you reading? So I think towards the end of the project, my success rate went up.
Like I would generally back myself to be able to, , go up to most people and have them say yes.
My approach is about engagement and, and having a connection.
And that's what should exist in the photograph. So, , if someone says No, fine. You know, move on. , normally, when someone says no, I would walk off and for like an hour think, why did they say no to me? Why did I get rejected? What have I done wrong? 'cause I rude, you know, all that. And, and then I'd not be able to ask another person.
, yeah. Most of the time people say yes, and then you'd have a good conversation. I spoke to some people who I'd never met before for an hour, at least an hour. We'd end up chatting. Music became something, which often people talk about. , for starters, someone's got earphones in or what are you listening to is a really good question.
People might say, you know, the song they listen to or they listen to a podcast or the radio, or actually they just put their earphones in 'cause they don't want to be bothered. And then I go and bother them, you know? What what strikes me there in, what you've said is that you are, using curiosity as quite a big tool.
So, [00:32:00] you are making them curious about why you're doing it, but then you're actually inquisitive yourself. You're asking them, , about themselves and striking up a conversation, which is actually, , quite a hard thing to do completely cold in the middle of a street.
As someone who tells the story through a photograph, is it important to you to understand, a certain level of, what's going on in their life?
How deep would you go? I never really pushed for that at all. , it didn't really bother me because some people, will tell you stuff because there'll be people who are quite comfortable sharing stuff other people who'll talk about sport or music in a much more sort of surface level way.
So I never really felt like the need to, to pull any threads with, with specific people. , it does interest me definitely. , you know, I remember someone telling me some really, you know, dark and personal things and, I sat at the end saying, thanks for sharing.
Is it okay if I include that? And this one guy, he talked about, , times that he had been very, very depressed and he said, yeah, please do. He said, the more people who know, , know about that , the more people feel comfortable.
The other side of it was the project itself. I went out to do it because it was for me, like, I started as, as a pretty selfish [00:33:00] endeavor. , I was the one who was not working and needed something and I needed to, , feel connection and stuff, which, which I did. So it didn't really ever feel like anyone needed to care about this project more than I did.
, one of the things I found really awkward and I, I, I had to notice was when I was looking at the photographs that they came in each day as I was, you know, going one by one.
, I realized I was like, one of the demographics I really neglected was any sort of females around my age, because I just found it. I didn't want it to seem sleazy, which I think it, it, it could easily come as a sleazy or like that. There's some sort of weird intentions and stuff that I found that the hardest thing for myself.
And then I remember one day there was a girl who stood, , outside Victoria Station, and it was like in the evening and she was wearing like this long, fofa coat. And she literally looked like she was in the 1920s. And she like, looks incredible. I said, that's, that's inherently just a good photograph.
And so I went over and she was lovely. And as I was taking a photograph, she was actually about to meet her first date. And so her first, the guy turned up on the first date to this whole, and the whole like [00:34:00] awkward dynamic, completely unraveled at that exact moment.
And I was like, this is exactly what I did want to happen. And I was like trying to explain they'd never met before. And then he was like, who are you? And I was like, I'm just, but in a nice way. He was just confused. He was like, what's going on? I was like, , this is so strange. , but it was good. It was good.
Yeah, it's good for me to sort of be that far off my comfort zone. Oh, brilliant.
so you mentioned just now that was an inherently good photograph 'cause she was wearing that coat. So what is it that you were looking for in the photographs?
Yeah, if I see someone who looks great, , or the light is good or there's good background, then I'll, you know, go and stop them and shoot that photograph.
constantly looking for something really unique. It could be the creases in someone's face from age or it could be the clothes they're wearing. I, the two things I learned from board today was one, , it is really interesting to go and take photographs of people, , and say Soho.
But Soho is a place, so photo, if you go, they, there are plenty of photographers doing similar thing. And so [00:35:00] I was almost put off a little bit by that because I didn't really want to go and photograph people who had just been photographed before. 'cause I didn't think that was new or interesting. I thought that what was really interesting was taking photographs of the people who've never had their photograph taken before.
, and the best example of that, and this is someone in, in the book called Hassan. , and I
took his photograph, quite near my house. I moved to Croydon. , so it was just a park in Croydon. And , I went up to this guy who sat on a bench and he was smoking a cigarette and he was on his laptop.
Could I take your portrait please? And he just looked at me and he said, why me? And I said, that is totally fair enough question.
Do you mind if I ask what you're, what you're up to, , on your laptop? And he's like, I'm actually updating my blog and all of this. I was like, this is great because one of my heroes, is Louis through and his ability just to listen to everything someone says and also what they don't say and react to it.
So, you know, once your blog on, and Hassan said on Libya, . So is that 'cause you hail from Libya? He said, yeah, I do, but I'm actually exile from Libya now. I was like, ah, exile.
I don't think everyone gets [00:36:00] exiled. And we ended up having this really long conversation about his, his life and he was someone who had, , spoken out against Gaddafi. , and , he had been exiled in, , the Arab Spring.
First, he was arrested because he was, , AC academic who had spoken out against the regime. He was put in prison and then they said, well, we'll release you if you go and inform on the other academics doing the same thing against the regime. And he managed to escape and get , to London.
. He'd just got on a flight, he had a few hundred pounds to his name, and he got a taxi and it was the 4th of July. And so he asked for a taxi taken to Trafalgar Square 'cause it was the only place he knew in the whole of England he'd never been before.
And all he saw in the way was American flags. So he asked the taxi driver, what country am I in? And he said, don't worry mate, you're in England. It's just American Independence Day today. And Hassan said, oh, it's my Independence day today as well. So I had this whole conversation and wow, it was amazing.
And the end of it, , , I said, you know, I don't normally ask people for their last names, but I would love to read more about you . And he said, it's El mean. It means the honest.
And I was like, wow, this is unbelievable. I think that was like something in the whole project and I still think about now, but , the [00:37:00] idea that every single person around you, could have incredible stories. Some people have just got very personal stories.
Some have much bigger, you know, stories like Hassan's. But that was something I had to keep going back to when I found it really difficult towards the end of the project. You know, I was 200 photographs in 200 days and I still had 165 to go. And I was like, this is really difficult. , it reminded myself,
I didn't need to , try really hard to find someone who looked like some idea of a good story or good photograph. , I should just go out and, and photograph anyone and chat to them and, and you know, Hassam was a very, very good example of that. Yeah, it's, it's a great example of how , you're using your craft, to connect with people and to find out more things because you would just never have known any of those stories without it, and we wouldn't have heard about them.
Having that connection each day, I mean, do you, do you miss it? I really got something great out of it, but I don't miss going out every single day and doing it., on the last day of the project, it was New Year's Eve. And I knew that the project was finishing that day and I found it really [00:38:00] difficult.
I didn't actually want to take that last photo because I, I thought this project's done so much for me
I thought, I dunno who that last photo should be in the book, , do I have to make some point or anything like that. Unlike other days, I thought it'd be really nice to get a newborn baby. And went past, , it's in Thomas's Hospital, , there's a sign. It says maternity ward. And I thought, I'll wait here
and I saw a couple walk out looking totally bewildered with a little car seat. And I was like, oh. So that was the last portrait and it was kind of, I didn't then need to say much. It was like the end of the year, the end of the project. And there was a baby who'd been born that day. So that was the end end of the book.
I didn't really know on the whole what the project would end up doing for me career-wise and stuff, because it's been massively, massively influential.
It definitely took all the things which, which you talked about it taught me to do, and now I can apply those, to be honest, before portrait day, I wasn't even shooting many stills. , certainly not professionally. Now I would say that my work is probably 50 50 motion and stills. Yeah.
It sounded like the first and the last photograph were almost like , two of the hardest.
I find it hardest to start sometimes and [00:39:00] then also hardest to know when to stop or, although you knew when to stop, it's just how do you kind of make a real polished point and finish, , yeah. At the end, It's hard. , for me, having the finite boundaries of a year helped.
It was like, well start tomorrow, is January the first? And if you don't, this isn't gonna get off the ground. January the first of the first day when I didn't do it for probably it was strange. I was like, oh my God, what do I do?
It took a while that year before I took another photograph of a person. Yeah, I bet. So do you, do you want to tell us what it actually led to, because it led to some quite significant things.
So firstly it led to, you know, I made this book Portrait a Day, which , I, , funded that myself and it cost me fortune.
It's a hard back book, 365 copies have one for every day of the year. And so each one is, numbered and signed.
and that has every single portrait and every single story throughout. It's also got a four word called The Companys Strangers written by Martin Salter, who's a photographer I really like. So that was the first thing.
It, [00:40:00] it made this book, , Which again, on like a personal level, that was amazing because it was a solid proof that I did something with 2021. Actually, something came out of it. and I remember my stepdad said to me if you print this book and you don't sell a single copy, it's still been worth it. And I was like, yeah, it has. Luckily it did sell , the Guardian picked that up and they did, , a really nice story about the book, which was fantastic.
You know, that was a highlight to wake up and see that they'd done, they'd done this piece on, on Portrait a day.
Oh, fantastic. Yeah. That's a nice surprise.
And then I had, , two of the portraits in there, one of Leroy that was shortlisted for Portraits of Humanity from the British Journal of Photography, and then another image from the book, , queen of Soho, , one Portrait of Humanity that year.
And those two things, you know, getting that like massively validated it because I knew that I'd done good work. I know that 365 images, they're not all fantastic, but they don't need to be because that's not. What the whole project's about, but to have two out of 365 make it into the shortlist and one of [00:41:00] them to be a winner was Yeah.
Incredible. , that's fantastic. And for people who don't know the Portrait of Humanity is images that define contemporary life in Britain. Is that right? Yeah, well actually, so there's Portrait of Humanity and there's Portrait of Britain. So they're both run by British Journal of Photography, portrait of Humanity, I believe.
Can span the world where the photos come from. Okay. And Portrait of Britain is British. , so they're very similar in, in their output in terms of the style and the look and the meaning of them.
And the way that Queen of Soho came about it was very quick, wasn't it? You didn't actually get a chance to talk
yeah. That was, , that , that was one of the quickest interactions I had and one of the funniest, , but also kind of just sst and it kind of was good about keeping you on your toes. So I was, you know, in soho and, this drag queen was walking up through soho. The light was amazing.
And I thought this be, you know, a, a good photograph. And I probably not Ivy thought. Maybe an easy person to say yes 'cause of [00:42:00] how they're dressed. And the person, respondent , oh, go on then. I was like, oh, okay. I'm, I'm Rory, so, uh, nice to meet you.
What? What's your name? They went, oh, we're not doing that. And I was like, okay. So they were like, but they were like, you can take my photo. But with this era of kind of like, I don't know, like, not even ambivalence, like dismissiveness. So I was like, okay, cool. So I was like, oh, do you mind stepping here into the light?
And they were like, no. Obviously you don't want me to be in the light. You must know that as a photographer, I was like, okay, so yeah, sure, I'll just take it here. So I took, I think I just took , two photographs and I was like, okay, thanks. And I was like, you know, I am more than happy to send to you, blah, blah, blah.
Nope, don't worry. And off they went, and off I went. And I was like, that was a whole whirlwind experience. So that's the only person, the whole book whose name I didn't know. But then subsequently, , the man who, I dunno what his drag character is called, but the man reached out to me on Facebook after seeing the image and was like, this is so wonderful.
Thank you so much. It was lovely, lovely to meet you. And, , you know, blah blah. And I was like, oh, give me address [00:43:00] and I'll send you a copy of the photograph. So I did. So we, we managed to connect after afterwards, which was fantastic. Oh good. I was gonna ask you about whether they'd connected with you.
Yeah, yeah. So it was, it was brilliant. , yeah. So that's kind of how that one came about. And it was just really like, and it was also funny because it, it was like a, there's like elements of that photo, which I had no control over, right. Like the expression and stuff. So I always felt like, yeah, I took the photograph, but who made that photograph?
Probably them not me, but, , you know. Yeah. Well it was the collaboration really. Yeah, definitely. so how do you tell a story in a still image?
'cause there's one thing to tell it in motion, but , how do you approach telling a story in a still image? , I think firstly it is just about conversation. , if you want that image , to look like an image you took, then I think you've got to be present with the photograph.
Speak to the person. Particularly actually if they are, famous or well known, they got their photo taken all the time and they'll probably had the photo taken a lot by photographers who stand in, take photos, they post you normal thing.
I [00:44:00] think the thing I can make slightly different, and it might be almost imp perceivable to people, but it's just to try and connect in some way, you could start with how's your day been? Or if you know something about them, it's okay to say like, oh, so am I right in thinking that you are, half Dutch, my wife's half Dutch, you know, like, I'm just making that up.
But like there, there's, find some sort of, Connection, I think is, is really important. I think finding a good pose where someone's, you know, natural. And then the rest for me is like with the eyes. And I often get people to look around. , one of the directions I'll constantly say is, okay, can we look down the lens?
, okay, now maybe look at my elbow, I'll point something on the wall. And as I do that, I'm just seeing how they move. And I'll also shoot between those moments as people adjust. Yes. Because I like moments in between. And then they might do something that all of a sudden I'm like, oh, that's it. If it's, if it's someone I've never met before and I've literally just bumped into them, it could be difficult because how I present them, it is just like more effective on me.
Like, I don't know that if, if I ask someone, [00:45:00] oh, could, could you sit cross-legged like that or something? 'cause I think it looks really great. Well, that they might not set cross-legged, their primary school or something. So I might go, oh, that's a really good representation of that person. That person's like, well, I've never done that.
So it's bizarre. So it's best I can, you know, if, if I, if it's someone, again, if it's someone famous or someone I've been in a room with for the day before I take their photograph in the afternoon or something, just watch, you know, the mannerisms, what I like. Mm-hmm. Of often I'll see someone say like cross-legged things.
You know, an example of a photograph I took of, , a guy, uh, this. Dance school called Born to Perform, and he has Down syndrome and he sits Crosslegged quite a lot. And so I was like, well, well, he sat down to take his portrait in a chair and didn't sit with his legs crossed. And I was like, oh, but I am I right in thinking you sit with your legs crossed quite a lot.
And he said yes. And his mum was like, yeah, it always does. I was like, well we, I feel like then we must shoot you with your legs crossed. You know, that was a, a really small thing. Yeah. But it made, made him more comfortable. It made me feel like that photograph was more genuine. , so it's difficult in a still image.
Definitely. , the other thing, I [00:46:00] think one, one of the things I try and do is just not shoot that much. I just, sometimes it feels counterintuitive 'cause it's kind of nerve wracking if you go back and you're like, oh, I didn't actually, I should've shot more, but actually shoot less, not more. Mm-hmm. I've seen people do it, but some people who just go with a shutter barring, like that's not, that's not authentic.
There's nothing, you know, like you probably won't get a real, real moment there. And then you'll sit flicking between 10 images, which are all basically the same anyway. , yeah. It kind of kills the mood. Yeah. Whereas your photographs they do draw me in, and there's an atmosphere that I kind of almost want to be part of when I look at them.
You can almost feel the air around. The people in them. That's really nice to hear. One of the things maybe you're noticing there, which one thing which I like doing is I like giving people lots of headroom or space around them in a photograph. I like being on a slightly wider lens and then being closer, just again, being inside, not someone's inside someone's personal space, but clearly looking like you are more than just an observer is a really nice place [00:47:00] to be.
Yeah. , so I tend to shoot on relatively wide lenses for port. A lot of people shoot on portraits. I'm quite tight lenses and I think it's a, for me anyway, I, I like being, , wider and closer. Yeah, no, that makes sense. And, and, and the eyes definitely draw you in as well.
I kind of like to look at the photographs before I read your caption.
And so I always constructed a story in my head. There's a lot that you play with in your images that I find really intriguing and I think there's that intrigue that makes me kind of want to learn about the caption.
So, yeah. It's nice. And even for me, I can go back and look at that book in different ways and I'll look at that date in the book and just see, oh, that's who I was with on that date in 2021. Yeah. , do you remember things more when you've taken a photograph of them?
Because I find that if I write something down if I've gone somewhere, I, I can remember it to a degree, but if I paint it, I can feel it, like it's a different, , it's 'cause I've used different senses. I think perhaps do, do you remember things better with when you photograph it?
Yeah, I think so.[00:48:00] A lot of the time I shoot on film, but the film camera I, I shoot on when you take the photo and the, it's a big medium format camera and when it, when the shut fires the. Viewfinder will go black.
And so the last thing you've seen through there is the image you've just taken until you get it developed and you get the scans back and stuff. And I will know when I've taken it, sometimes I get this feeling and I click and it goes like, as the shutter goes up and I'm like, I think that's a really good photograph.
And that like I can think about that now. Like I probably, similarly, similarly with a, a lot of the work which you've done, there's maybe even, I dunno if it comes down to, you know, brush strokes that, that integrate with you, but sometimes I think like that was the right time to press that button.
Yeah. And, and it's really, that's a really nice feeling to have. Oh yeah, I absolutely understand that feeling. It's really hard to put into words, but you just know. There is a moment when you just go, yes, got it.
Do you take photographs as well? Yeah, I do. that's how I learned composition really through my dad because he's an [00:49:00] amateur photographer. , and we used to go on lots of holidays to the lake district and shoot on film and then develop it in the dark room in the evening.
So Amazing. I have very fond memories of, the smell of the dark room and just the anticipation of. You know, you think you've got certain shots with the light, especially in the late district. We had beautiful scenery obviously. , then seeing that develop when you're just kind of going, yes, we definitely got it.
Was, it was actually really thrilling, . Yeah. It's so nice. I mean, I can't paint, I can't draw at, at all. That's not even trying to be bashful or I'm like, I literally cannot do it. It frightens me how bad I am, but if I have a camera, that's something I can, find. An imaging. Yeah.
I went to the, , David Hockney exhibition, , recently at the Light Room, which is like an interactive thing. I dunno if you've been, but he talks in that, he talks a lot about, well he used the camera for lots of stuff, which he did, but he, he literally talks about, he's like, it's not photography.
It, that's, I was painting using a camera and it's really, I bought the book afterwards. I thought. It's really interesting perspective. Yeah. , I'll have to get that one. That sounds really good. , [00:50:00] so why do you think it's important. That you tell people's stories and, we tell stories to each other as humans.
one of the things I think that's very important is we live in such a bipartisan world that, everything seems to be split down the middle, what we vote on, who we choose as leaders and everything else.
Everything just needs to be like one way or the other. In my book, the 365 People, I guarantee there's people in there that politically I wouldn't agree with. I mean, there's people in my family I don't politically agree with, so, there's definitely people in the book who like, would hold, , you know, massively differing views.
But what I did find was I was able to hold conversation with people around music or hold conversations with 'em about sport or their family or how difficult life was at that particular moment, or how good life was at that moment. And I think that it's really, really important to remember that. , because I don't think it's unhealthy to box people all the time into [00:51:00] these sort of, Black and white images of, of thinking one way or another.
It's not to say like you should disagree with people if their views are boring, but actually what I realized was how important discussion was with people I wouldn't maybe normally speak to, you know, people who aren't in my normal sphere. , and I think that that is something which I came out of realizing, , was really important.
And I think that's, hopefully people can enjoy that whole book and they get to the end of it. And then maybe they've experienced a glimpse into other people's stories and lives that they simply would not have come into the orbit of, and vice versa. And so that is why I think it's important. You should be able to find some sort of commonality with anyone.
I love that. I think it's really important , to connect and remember the humanity, , at the heart and. People sometimes, almost like you say, box themselves into corners, , over time. And storytelling can help people to come back out and reconnect.
So I think we're onto [00:52:00] the final creation. So are you able to share Creation three, please? So Creation three is, , a portrait of l e b Thomas, who is, , an athlete that I took a photograph of in 2022
, and she has Down Syndrome and she, , was part of a dance school called Born to Perform, which are based in Northampton. And that was the first time I met her. I was doing a project, , for World Down Syndrome Day. , and a friend of mine runs that dance school. , we come up with this idea to shoot some portraits and in fact, the first conversation I had with my friend Clemmy, , she asked me if I'd like to take some photographs and I said, actually, I really would like to, I'd, you know, like to do something around Down Syndrome.
There's a family connection, which we'll come on to. but I thought, you know, that's something I'd really like to do. So I went up, spent a day photographing eight people Down syndrome who go to,, born to Perform. It was just one of the best days I've ever had. I loved it. It was really fun. I was outta my comfort zone again because Ellie , she's a rhythmic, gymnast, and she made me, , practice with her ribbons and stuff, which I was absolutely useless at.
[00:53:00] But it was really fun., so I took a portrait of Ellie, and seven others. And as the shutter kind of went up and the image went black, I literally almost thought along the lines of like, that's National Portrait Gallery.
That's a goal of mine to be in the National Portrait Gallery. And I thought, I think that's a really nice image. you know, her pose was incredible. And, you know, she looks so powerful in the image. She's wearing a blue leotard and she's holding her red, clubs resting on her shoulder.
Her eyes aren't looking down the lens. She's looking up. she just looks really like powerful. It's a really amazing post. And she is really powerful. She's an incredible, incredible person. So I took her portraits. Ellie and I, again, we've stayed in touch. I know her mom, Anne now, , I went to Berlin early this year to go and film Ellie compete at the Special Olympics World Games,
and she won two gold medals t so, , yeah, it was fantastic. But that portrait, Firstly, it was shortlisted , for, the Taylor Westing Prize at the National Portrait Gallery. and Clemmy who was one of the three, people who, run the school board to perform.
when we had first spoken, I said, I want to do it and I want to do it a level that would be recognized by the N P G. I think it's always good to have big [00:54:00] goals. It might hurt you a little bit if you don't achieve them, but it's good to aim really, really high. Yeah.
With the quality, you know, you want to achieve. That's something for me, Ellie doesn't care at all. She liked the photograph, but she also likes tons of photographs. and she liked the experience more than anything. And us becoming friends was, you know, more meaningful to both of us.
But yeah, definitely having the N P G I. Validate it by saying like, you know, we shortlisting it, we want to see it in the physical round of judging was like incredible. Wow. Amazing. It made me so happy. I think I physically jumped for joy.
I was like, this is incredible. But not just because it was like, oh, this is, you know, me and my name, which has definitely got it. Like honestly would be part of it. You can't hide the fact that I'm doing it because as a photographer, I want the validation that I'm doing good work. And again, it was something like when I'm doing my own true work, it was still doing as well as anything I've ever been paid to do. Yeah. And had money to do. And that was a really nice feeling.
That's another example in your career where you've done something [00:55:00] that's actually led to other things. You're following your nose , just to kind of go, actually this is just a really great project and or this is gonna be a really great connection, a really great story.
so I think that's just something that's interesting for people to take away is actually it doesn't have to always be paid. I'm not saying that you, I definitely agree that you have to pay artists. So if you're commissioning someone, you should pay them. But there are personal projects that can actually turn into, a commercial endeavor or an award that actually helps propel you forward in your career.
Yeah, definitely. And I'm a massive. Champion of doing that. I mean, every single year I try and do a project, off my own back. I'll come up with an idea. And, you know, village was one year. , the portraits I did, at Born to Perform, that was last year's still's project.
this year. I've got an idea, which I'm very loosely doing near where I live in Croydon, following, the tram line. 'cause it runs across South London. so I always have ideas because those things keep me engaged in the process of what I like to shoot, where there's no external influence
yes. It also comes with, there's no [00:56:00] external money, but , I think you need to do it. 'cause it reminds me what I like to shoot. , and those things are really important. I have have lots of meetings with agencies and stuff, and they're always, always, always interested in what I do when there's no money, Andre, Wagner, who's a photographer I really like, I saw a YouTube video with him recently and he talks about the fact that like, it's all well and good if you go out and take photos, photographs of celebrities and like, did that photo do well because it was a famous person.
Like probably, yes, it might have been a good photograph, but can you still go and do that? Can you still go and do the work when you don't have everything at your disposal from like good lunch that day to amazing lighting for assistance and all that stuff. Can you still go and do good work? So I think doing the work, not only was it meaningful for me to do stuff with Ellie, but to go and do that work to remind myself , that's what I want to do.
Every time I've done it has always led to people seeing me how I want to be seen as a, a photographer. Yeah. And then getting work as a result of that. Yeah. Without, without a doubt. Because there's a rawness to what you describe really, because that is your inner [00:57:00] voice, that's your creative voice that you are letting out.
And so you are then attracting as you were saying just then I think you, you are then attracting people to you who you are then gonna be able to make more of the work that is actually within the scope of your voice. Yeah. Which must be much more satisfying. Yeah, definitely. And then, you know, going back to Ellie's portrait,
As well as it getting shortlisted by the N P G it was a winner of Portrait to Britain, the nicest thing about that was it was then, on lots and lots of screens all over the UK at, train stations.
And Ellie saw it and she was thrilled and that made, totally worthwhile, you know? that's fantastic. It's, it's an absolutely great shot.
And obviously it does have a special meaning to you 'cause of your, family background. Can you share your, connection, the clues in the title here a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. So, my family connection is that my surname is Langdon down, and my great, great-grandfather, it's called Dr.
John Langton down and, he and his wife, set up a hospital in Normans Field, which is in West London, for [00:58:00] treating people with what later became known as Down Syndrome. So at the time, this is in like 1850s, he was one of the first people to realize that.
People who'd been marginalized, actually may have something in common medically no one else had really explored that. So he started, studying as best he could in, in the Victorian era. , and understanding Down syndrome, because what down Syndrome is, is a abnormality in the 21st chromosome.
Well, that wasn't found out till much later. That's what his theory was, but there was no way of knowing back then. But what he did do, which is amazing, was he documented people with Down Syndrome. so they lived at the hospital where he and his wife lived. The hospital was founded and based around the idea that every person who worked there, from doctors and nurses to Porters to catering staff and all the residents would, partake in creative outlets.
So there's an incredible theater there, which still exists today called, the LAN Down Theater, which is absolutely amazing. And every person who [00:59:00] lived there, resident and staff would partake in plays and productions because they knew, how important creativity was with people and how well people with Down Syndrome responded to it.
Which is amazing because. We're 170 years later than that now what Born to Perform are doing is the same thing. Yes, they are providing a space for Creative Outlet, which to be honest, everyone needs, but it's fantastic , whether it's dance or music or painting or anything.
and , there aren't as many, outlets as there should be.
So what the center was doing, Lang down center was so ahead of its time. Yeah. it was really remarkable.
And one of the other really cool things is, , so my great-great-grandfather, one of the things he used was photography. He's got one of the largest archives, if not the largest archive of, , medical photography from the Victorian era. And I think it was something which I'd always wanted to be involved in. I ran the under marathon like a few years ago and ran it for the Down Syndrome Association, D S A, who I'm now involved in., I do some, , judging on , their photography competition for people Down syndrome, which is amazing.[01:00:00]
So I always wanted to do something in that field, but using what I could do, just taking photographs, , but always felt like it could be a bit gratuitous. And then when that project came along with, with my friend Clemy, it just felt like completely the right time. And since then I've done. A lot more.
It's like the most rewarding stuff I do. One thing it does do is raise more awareness and provide a bit more perspective on people with Down Syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. and what do you see at Born to perform that amazing school
what do you see or hear about the benefits of creativity for the members? It is a place for 'em to socialize amongst other people who are, in many ways like them in terms of being creative, loving music. A lot of it might be based around, theater. I know there's some massive theater fans within that group, so they do lots of great theater trips.
There are loads of direct impact in terms of, , mobility, which is really helpful and coordination. , sometimes it's about refreshing or developing neural pathways between how you might want to move your hand or your feet.
Yeah, [01:01:00] well dance will be a really good way to do that in a really fun environment.
It's just an enjoyable space I've been up there a couple of times, the first time I went up there There was a boy, and he was really interested in filming and photography. So I said, brilliant, well, do you wanna assist me?
And he could. Oh wow. He was like, getting ladders out. I didn't really need them, but he was like, right, I'm gonna go and adjust all these lights. It was a, way of him engaging in something, which probably doesn't come into his world all that often. You know, a, a small photo shoot and he was brilliant.
Born, perform themselves, have done so many amazing things, one of them being that they went onto Britain Scott Talent and they got a golden buzzer and made it through to the semi-finals, if not the finals. And again, the most important thing there was representation, , showing, people, what people with, with learned disabilities.
Can do. Yeah. And then the thing which I'm doing with Down Syndrome Association at the moment, which is non-judging their, my perspective photography competition is brilliant. It's all photographs taken by, people with, with downs.
And, , it's fantastic. Love it. It's called My Perspective. It's a new perspective. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of photographers could learn [01:02:00] a lot from seeing a new perspective like that. Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like you were a creative hero affairs for the day.
So flipping that on its head, who would you say are your creative heroes? One person's name check is a guy called Adam Brown, I met him on a course at Pinewood Studios. And he put me forward for my first job as a camera assistant. And it was a four day shoot in Germany. , I think we just got on, well again, it, it was certainly was not 'cause he thought I was any good with the camera because he couldn't have done, I don't think I was that good then.
He's someone I've always looked up to, not just because of the creative stuff he's done, but just because of how he works, his dedication, , his family. , and then, you know, a couple years ago he won a BAFTA for a documentary, which he dedicated five years to, called Into the Storm.
And it's, it's a brilliant, brilliant film. Tells a story of a surfer from Peru, it's more about humanity than it is about surfing.
It's fantastic. Mm-hmm. But Emma Hardy, I went to talk with her. , about a book that she brought out last year called Permissions. And it is just like the most stunning photo book ever. And it's basically photographs of her [01:03:00] with her family from when she's got children.
But when they were from babies up until teenagers, essentially when they started withdrawing their permission for their mother to, to take a photo all the time, again, like what you could achieve, what you could do with who is immediately around you. Mm-hmm. You know, I've got a wife and we have a baby on the way. And it was like exciting to see what maybe I could photograph in terms of my child's life when it grows up or as it grows up until they start saying, stop pointing a camera at me as well.
Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Yeah, baby two in a month's time, which is very exciting. One of the first, photo books my wife gave me was a William Eggleston book.
Mm-hmm. And he photographs, , a lot of Americana really. Shooting like in the fifties and sixties and well since then. But seeing these amazing cars and drive-in cinemas and diners and, , hairdos and fashion and like, I was just obsessed with it. I think it's amazing and it's, it's like you can replicate that to an [01:04:00] extent.
I think part of the thing that taught me was, , , you could take a photo and then it might not be a good photo, but just hang on to it for 20 years and then you'll look back at it. Yeah. And those cars in the background of that photograph all of a sudden, yeah. You know, they're probably not gonna look as good as old American classic cars, but they'll be, they'll date the photo.
And I think that's a nice thing. And I can see how his color palette, tonally shows up in, a lot of your photographs. I can see that influence actually. It's very flattering. , yeah, I think he shoots, when I think of his photographs, I think of Sunrise and Sunset a lot.
, he uses, there's a lot of warmth in his photographs, which I love. Yeah. And then I, I'd say recently,
You know, I've got friends who are photographers, but I probably didn't see that much. And over the last year or so, me and two others, , became really close, started sort of meeting up as a way to sort of, Talk about the successes of what we're doing and, and what we enjoy about what we're doing.
But to be totally honest about when things are really tough and know that it's totally okay when you don't have much work on, or it looks like everyone else is doing better work than you are, that actually, that's totally fine. And [01:05:00] that has been one of the most positive things for me mentally.
I think having that very small but really open friendship with, with those two guys, , Harry Hall and Tom Ger, and they're both fantastic photographers. , and that's been a really nice thing. I think just, just to have that. I think, I don't know, being an artist, it, it's great that it's solitary to an extent, you know?
I'm sure you can sympathize with that. Yeah. Like you sit in a studio, but also it's pretty difficult being on your own a lot of the time. And it's also difficult if you're just staring at your painting or your photographs or the lack of either of those things, thinking like, I haven't made anything good in ages.
Yeah. Or whatever. And just to have some people who just go like, that's totally fine. And actually you have, but you just, you don't see it. So that that, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And time takes on a really weird, I dunno, some days. Like it just seems like a really long day when you're on your own in the studio.
I find I'm kind of going, I'm not sure what time it is now. Yeah. , and then, I just don't think it's that healthy for, for me personally at least to be alone with my thoughts for too long. , because I, yeah. I [01:06:00] relate to the fact that you, yeah. You can just get yourself into all sorts of trouble in that way.
I mean, I need it sometimes if it's been really like busy, I'm, I'm desperate for a day alone. Yeah. , but yeah, I think having that support network of people who know what you're talking about and her going through it or have been through it to remind you that actually yeah, there's peaks and troughs, it's fine.
Yeah. And it's also great because I, you know, for those two, two guys to have that, but then also see their work. You know, I see the campaigns which they work on and stuff, and I think they're amazing and they, they both achieved, you know, great accolades and they've also been through tough times, each of them too.
So, , it feels like a very honest, , view of what it's like to be a, a creative. Yeah, exactly. If I was to say to you that, , you had to stop creating, what do you think you would lose from your life if you had to stop creating tomorrow?
I actually think about this quite a bit because I always think when I go through a quiet patch of work, and I've been doing it for 10 years and I've only ever done this professionally, I've not had a, you know, proper job. 'cause [01:07:00] my mom would probably call it.
Mm-hmm. , I think I missed the feedback. , I do like having an audience, honestly, like putting something out. It doesn't need to be much, but I like being able to share like a glimpse of who I think I am through a photograph of someone else. Like that's really nice, , to have taken a photograph of someone else, but know that that reflects a bit of who you are is, a really nice thing Yeah.
To do. ,
yeah. , I know that what this has taught me is the thing I wouldn't want to lose is working in some job where I've got human connection, whether it's teaching or, you know, I.
Care or doing something, you know, like born to perform or something like those things. And I've done a, you know, my job opens my eyes to a lot of careers, from corporate jobs to sport music, all those things. You know, like I know now, I mean, it's quite a good way of having a glimpse into a different job. And the thing I would like to do definitely is just to be around people.
It indicates to me there's a level , of vulnerability and all of those things that you have to overcome in order to be able to do your job.[01:08:00] Because , it does take a lot to share your work , but you kind of have to, I, I understand that impulse to share it, because in my mind it's almost not completely finished unless I've shared it.
Because you're basically showing them your insides. That that's how I Yeah, yeah. No, de definitely. And I think, knowing it's possible that I could go out on any day and take a photograph that could end up in, portrait Britain or something. That is something which, is constantly exciting.
Yeah, exactly right. Well, I'm happy to say, Rory, that we are at the end of the forest. You've lit the way beautifully. So thank you for sharing all of your stories.
So congratulations, you are now officially an art after dark Illuminati, so thank you very much. Clapping myself. Yeah, that was a lovely wonder through the forest. Oh, thank you. , so you have two main duties as an Illuminati. , one is, could you share with us, just some kind of way that people can easily, get into your craft whether [01:09:00] it's, , motion or photography.
And then secondly, if you could share someone who would be willing to come and talk to me in the forest. , so I would say, , I dunno whether it's easy or not, 'cause I know it's not easy, but the, the idea that it is within your realm of going out and taking a photograph of someone and you can do that.
that's the thing which I like doing. So I would say, and I've always been a strong believer, this, it is not about the equipment. So if your phone in your pocket takes a photo, then it is a camera and that is totally fine. , and the hard part would be taking a photo of a stranger. So take a, take a photo of someone, you know, see if you can take a photograph of someone you know in maybe the environment that makes them happy or means something to both of you or, or how you see them.
Could be a really nice way of just. Having that first idea of posing someone. Using whatever's at your disposal, , to take a photograph of someone and not to take loads.
But to take a nice, nice photograph that you think reflects that person, that's something which yeah, I would recommend as a way of getting into social [01:10:00] portraiture. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. And is there someone who you'd recommend, , comes on the podcast?
Yeah, it's, , my friend Claire James, , and Claire is someone I went to university with.
First of foremost an artist. She's actually also a teacher. Not only , is her art in itself inspiring, but just how she goes about it and her like clear need to do it is amazing.
And it became more, , important for her when she was diagnosed with cancer in , 2021 she was, , just under 30 years old. , and she spent 2022 going through, chemo, being very, very ill, , her whole world turning on its head, not being able to work, her husband having to work harder than he's ever had in every capacity , to support them emotionally and physically and financially.
And then all the while having a, a toddler that she was raising. When I spoke to Claire, I asked her if she'd thought about using creativity, , in any way, , during. The process of her treatment.
And I had just finished portrait a day. , [01:11:00] and I told her what that had done for me mentally.
She wanted to document her year, , with her paintings and drawings in a similar fashion to how I'd done Portrait a day. I can't even imagine how hard that was, , for Claire to have done that in so many ways.
So I would massively champion you go and speak to Claire James. She's, an incredible person. . Inside and out and, down to her fingertips creatively. Fantastic. Thank you for the recommendation. I look forward to speaking to Claire. She sounds absolutely amazing. Yeah, she really is.
Well, thanks so much for having me. Brilliant. Thank you Rory. It's been an absolute pleasure and , I wish you a safe trip back with , your wheat of eggs. I know. Well it's probably about time for another ball. I know. It probably is brilliant. Thanks so much Uri. Bye. Thanks, bye bye. Bye.
Louise: I really hope that you've enjoyed our conversation in the forest today. Remember to tag me on socials@artafterdark.co. If you've been inspired to create or to share any thoughts on this episode I'd absolutely love to hear from you and to see what you've been up to.
You can find all [01:12:00] images and details of the creations we discuss in the show notes on my website, louise emily.com.