How mindLESS creativity can help you process your feelings.
Our artistic explorer in this episode is Adam Holmes, a Sussex-based, self-described human Swiss army knife.
Packed into this episode you'll discover;
🐿️Why we should all be squirrels.
💃How we learn NOT to dance. 🕺
🔗How constraints can make you interesting.
📝Why you should brief yourself.
🧠How creating can help you to process your thoughts and feelings.
🗣️Why saying things out loud changes the way you think.
✂️How the "director's cut" can relieve tension.
📱Why the notes and voice apps are possibly the most important creative tools of the 21st century.
Adam has spent the past 16 years working in businesses across industries as a graphic designer, marketeer, creative director, film producer, and business partner at Creative Production Company, brother Film.
He's an occasional woodworker and is currently halfway through a sabbatical, taking a well-earned break from the past few years, enjoying a chance to recover and re cultivate his mind whilst he works out what he wants to do when he grows up.
Learn more about Louise's Art After Dark workshops
Links to things we talk about in the show:
Song Exploder by Hrishikesh Hirway
The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron
Get creating with Adam's woodworking suggestions!
Transcipt
Adam Holmes
Adam: [00:00:00] I basically had 24 hours to build a full size quarter bike, with whatever materials were on the island or that we could get to the island on a speedboat. it sounds so ridiculous,
that whole week was like, Being paid to do what I spent my entire childhood doing for free.
When my mom died end of last year, I just hit , complete burnout.
It floored me.
I wasn't myself anymore. Decided to take some extended time off. To heal . A big part of how I did that was through creativity.
Louise: hello, and I'm delighted to welcome you to the first episode of my new podcast, art After Dark, where we explore the transformative impact of the arts on mind, body, and soul. I'm your host, Louise Emily, an artist on a mission to shed light on the power of human creativity.
Our artistic explorer today is Adam Holmes, a Sussex based, self-described human Swiss army knife. Adam has spent the past 16 years working in businesses across industries as a graphic designer, marketeer, creative director, film producer, and business partner [00:01:00] at Creative Production Company, brother Film. He's an occasional woodworker and is currently halfway through a sabbatical, taking a well-earned break from the past few years, enjoying a chance to recover and re cultivate his mind whilst he works out what he wants to do when he grows up.
As you can see, darkness has fallen. It's time to welcome Adam to the forest. Welcome Adam.
Adam: Hello. Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me. It's lovely to see you, you look completely ready for the forest. More than more also than me. I think I'm a fair weather forester today. I've, yeah. I decided I'd go full, full lumberjack shirt in a, in readiness for the, for the night in the forest.
Brilliant, . I love it. , , first question. Have you packed your bag with your three creations?
I have. Do you wanna see it? Oh, this is a, it's called , a style cam bag. , it's basically a brilliant bag. It's my favorite backpack. I've got a, bigger version of it from them as well. , they're basically two really nice guys who met traveling and decided that bags weren't good enough, so they'd make their own one.
And they're just really, really nice bags. They're [00:02:00] really comfortable. They get lots in them. They've got lots of fun little like useful pockets and stuff. Oh, I love a pocket. It's a good bag. I really like it.
Looks very appropriate for the forest
Yes. What snack have you I have got some built on, oh, but , I got built on because my dad used to live in Cape Town for most of my childhood. so I used to visit there a lot. And I just really like, I really like built on it. It's also a great snack for the woods. 'cause it, because kind of doesn't really go off. It lasts for ages, gives you good energy.
It's tasty. Nice. It's a good one for sharing with people.
Again. Very, you're very like on format aren't I'm going straight, straight in a hundred percent metaphor All the way.
Hundred percent. . What was the drink that you brought? The drink? I've just got good old fashioned water in a metal bottle. , mainly 'cause water is the OG drink, so why not have water? and I'm trying to be a bit more healthy and avoid fizzy drinks and sweet things and that kind of thing. and I'm trying to avoid drinking out plastic. So I've got a nice metal bottle from Ocean Bottle. They're very nice. I like a bottle where you can hold onto it. [00:03:00] Yeah, mainly 'cause I like the idea of like putting a carabiner on it, attaching that to my bag, just to really like go straight into the, the real feeling of being an outdoorsy person. But I'm not really, but you know, it helps me pretend.
So it's nice. I was just about to say, I bet you've got some carabiners. I bet you have. This is like, this is ab Oh, oh, the bottom's lovely as well. Oh yeah. Orangey red, the orange bottom as well. It's nice isn't it? Oh yeah. Nice. I'm quite, I really write, they're honestly really good bottles. I write ocean bottle and they didn't, you know, they're trying to save their planet.
That's a nice thing to do. Yeah, definitely love it. Right. Speaking of carabiners, my bag's , actually got one on it. Course has. I honestly never doubted that. Cool. Which is obviously only ever been used for clipping water bottles to it and has had no climbing experience in his life. And rope climbing terrifies me because I'm scared of heights. Yeah, that is, that is, that is a bit of an issue. Well, luckily we're in the forest, so we're gonna keep both feet squarely on the ground. So I think it's time you seem completely ready, probably more ready than you'll ever be. To choose your first creation that's gonna like the path for us. So can you [00:04:00] tell us your first creation, Adam? Yes, I can. So, , creation number one is,
A collection of B M X ramps they used to make as a kit.
When I was like maybe seven or eight onwards,
me and a couple of other kids would just go and spend the entire weekend rummaging around my dad's garage, finding what we could to build a ramp, spend most of the weekend building it and then jumping our bikes over it. And we did that all day, Saturday and Sunday from seven till about 15. I reckon.
That's just how I spent my entire, basically until I discovered drinking, smoking and drugs. That's how I spent the rest of my time. It was great. , don't do drugs. , and it was great. Like I absolutely loved it. And we used to, we, I dunno how we were allowed to do this, but we used to jump over the other kids.
So like we'd build a ramp and then get kids to lie down in front of it and see how many of the kids we could jump over. And that was just, do you remember the record? How many? How many? , I think I used to be able to do [00:05:00] this sounds ridiculous, but it's a hundred percent true. I actually like five people lying down like sardines and I'd jump off five with 'em, a little ramp, like they're only kids, but they're still like 10.
You know, I, I wouldn't wanna be the one on the end just in case you just clicked. No, no. That was always like, you'd always, it was normally it was, this is the nineties, very sexist, but like, we'd normally have the guys be like the ones building the wraps and sucking.
And then when we finished, we were ready. We try and convince everyone's sisters to come and lie in front of this thing so we could all jump our bikes over them, basically. but we'd always put one of the guys on the end just in case you got hurt. We didn't wanna hurt one of our little sisters, essentially.
Yeah. You wouldn't be allowed to go out again. That's the problem. You're protecting the next day's endeavors. Yeah. Protecting the fun. I mean, they would range for anything to, like, sometimes it would just be we found a square of wood and a pile of all bricks and you just do a pile of bricks that creates, like, that part of the ramp, get your square of wood, bang it on, that'll do, jump over it.
, and then it kind of progressed to building all the different parts of it and finding different pieces [00:06:00] of wood. And sometimes you'd then maybe move up to, kind of making lots of supports throughout it. And then you. Put a little on lips so you could get onto it smoother and then off it smoother with a bit more of a jump. And I remember one of the kids, , his parents like bought him an actual ramp, like a proper plastic ramp. , everyone was obsessed with it for like two weeks and then we were like, I think we can make better ones. So we then just started using that as a blueprint to then go and make, yeah, more like, kind of take ideas from that and make more versions ourselves.
, it sounds, it sounds like you almost enjoyed the making of the ramp as much as, if not more than actually skating on it. Is that Oh, a hundred percent. Like the, the making was the activity, I think like the, the actual riding over it. Realistically, eventually you get tired, kids get tired easily, they've got little legs, or someone just gets hurt.
That's the creative element was the what can we make or how can we make the thing we're looking to make out of the, essentially just the crap. My dad had lying around in the garage, , and he was like, he was a big maker of [00:07:00] everything. , so our garage was like a treasure trove for all sorts of stuff.
I was all about the kind of like wooden, the tools and he had like my granddad's old tool, chest, all the stuff in it, and just, we were allowed, we're basically allowed to use anything we wanted.
Just, yeah. So you had quite a lot of confidence at an early age. How did you discover or, you know, a lot of people are told they're not creative. How was that with you? Were you encouraged? , I was always told from a kid that I was, I was creative. , actually creative wasn't the word.
It was, I was told I was artistic. I actually, I'm not convinced that the word creative at the time was in common vernacular. I don't think that it was, I. Used colloquially to describe people, especially not kinda kids where I grew up kind of, it wasn't a thing.
, but I was told I was artistic and I was told that that was, 'cause my dad was artistic and he was artistic 'cause his mom was artistic. And it was kind of like, it was always described to me as like this linear thing where like, well either you or your sister was bound to be, 'cause your dad was and your grand was.
So like, it just kind of comes down. , so I was always told I was creative, which I [00:08:00] think was probably two sided in terms of its benefit because it had huge, it gave me lots of confidence just to do creative things, but also made me assume I wasn't very clever. , so I, like, I didn't do well at school, traditionally, like I wasn't that smart.
My sister was way smarter than me. , because she was always told she was the clever one and I wonder whether you live into, you kind of step into the shoes you're given. Yeah. , but I think that mixed with , the ramp building was like I was realizing that creativity in your thinking and then turning that into making a thing, , that's how we spent all of our free time was that was our play, that was our fun, was thinking up things that didn't exist or that we wanted, that we didn't have.
And they're gonna go try and make them. We were never discouraged from doing it, which I think gave me the confidence that we could go and make anything. It was possible to make the things you wanted
and we could work out as we went along. And I think that combined with us, look, my dad was, would make everything around our house at all times. and he would always let us join in.
And that's just how we grew up.
[00:09:00] It meant that we had the confidence just , to do it and just to give stuff a go. Yeah. That whole attitude of like, just give it a go, we'll figure it out.
That's such an amazing gift that, that he gave you because it's just, it's really the creative spirit and that whole thing of you are enjoying the process. That's what kind of, what I get out of that is you, is what kids do when they, when they play. And it sounds like your dad sort of had it. It's like, I'm enjoying the process of doing it.
The outcome will be the outcome. , and I think that's to me is one of the big, joys of being creative is, is actually the doing of of the thing rather than necessarily, and whether it comes out good or bad is kind of, it's sort of like a separate piece. do you, do you feel that? Yeah, definitely. Really nice saying. If you're not prepared to be wrong, you'll never create anything original.
It's like if you're not prepared to screw up, then you're never create anything interesting. And I think that concept is really true, but it's really hard to take that on if you just hear it. Yeah. Whereas I think that[00:10:00] the way that we were brought up created that feeling that it was fine to go make things.
And if it wasn't good, fine. If it didn't work, then build it again. If it broke to fix it, it was kind of that just go and do it and give it a go because it's, the process of doing it is fine. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And have you ever, wanted to do something but felt like you're holding yourself back or worried about the outcome?
Have you ever had that or do you just always feel completely fine at ease with it? , no, I definitely have that. I have that load. I actually have it more now. Yeah. As an adult than I used to have. And I feel like the older I get, the more I have that feeling. I think that's, a case of just kids versus grownups. There's a really nice kinda idea that everyone dances. People learn not to dance. So , if you ask, go into a classroom of four year olds and say, everyone dance, all of 'em will start dancing. Right? Because they don't know yet whether they're good or bad at dancing.
'cause no one's told them. So they just think that dancing's dancing like everyone's good at dancing. 'cause everyone can do it. So just do it. Yeah. Walk [00:11:00] into a room of 14 year olds and say everyone dance. A lot of them will learn that they aren't very good at it in other people's opinions. And so they're embarrassed, they're scared, they don't wanna look silly in front of their classmates with their friends.
They don't wanna do something they're not good at. Yeah. And so most of them won't do it because only the ones who are great and are confident that they are great will end up doing it. and I feel like creativity that, that I think works across all creativity is that the comes the older you get, like find me a three year old who doesn't draw like every kid draws.
Right? Yeah. But nearly no adults draw. Yeah. Because at some point they've either been told or learnt that they're not good at it. Yeah. In someone else's opinion. So they've stopped doing it. , I think that idea that you, like you only do stuff you're good at, even if you love it, is kind of an annoying.
Yeah. But I get, I also have that, like I can see it from a, in this conversation, sensible scientific point of view that shouldn't exist. But then in the moment I have it all the time. I often wonder, 'cause I, I [00:12:00] definitely feel that, like, when I'm kind of like egging myself on to kind of start a new, like literally from a blank canvas when I'm painting, there's that feeling of like, if I have, if I've been on holiday, if I haven't been in the studio for a while, it's, it's worse.
I feel like it's worse because, and then look at what I've painted before and I'm like, who did that? I, I can't do that again. I'm just like, God, I'm just gonna then disappoint myself. So it is like that fear of failure and I'm constantly having to find ways to like, trick myself or to just dare myself. I heard someone say, , I think they were talking about writing and they just said, right, you've gotta write the worst paragraph you can possibly write.
So it's like you tell yourself it's gonna be bad and that's, it's a way of trying to go. Yeah. It's, it's, it's gonna be bad and it's fine. Yeah. And then once you sit there and you do it, you, you kind of just end up getting better and you kind of, you get over yourself. Yeah. I totally get that.
I think that it's almost, creativity is like a muscle that you have to exercise, you've gotta practice at it. , you can a [00:13:00] hundred percent get better and worse. So I, heard this concept actually explained to me, about happiness. But I think applied to creativity, it works totally the same, is that everyone is in some level creative.
So say, if you have to put a scale to it, say that you can be anywhere from zero to 10 creative. Everyone sits on that scale somewhere, but they don't sit at a point, they sit in a band. So you might be a five to 10 creative, like at your worst, you are still a five. Yeah. At your best you're a 10. Whereas someone else at their worst might be a zero and at their best be a four or a six.
Right? So, which means that at your worst, you're still better than them, but you still have the ability to get better and worse yourself within your achievable band, depending on how much you practice at it. , how much you kind of like exercise that muscle essentially.
Then you can learn to be better. I remember I had an art teacher at secondary school who I.
Used to preach on the fact that he believed everyone could learn to paint that [00:14:00] it was, it was in everyone, like everyone did. As the kids, it's totally possible for you to get better and learn to a decent standard, to be able to paint. When I was at school, I was really good at painting. I'm terrible at painting now. Yeah. I can't of lost that ability, but it's so unpracticed that it is kind of buried deep, deep, deep down.
And maybe I could get back there again if I focused a bunch of time on doing it. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I mean, that's partly why we're here, why this podcast exists, because I think it's really important to share those bands or the way that even people who are amazing artists or photographers or, you know, film directors, they still have the same struggles, like getting into the zone or the same kind of fears.
So don't let that stop you from just having a go, , because whatever it is, you're gonna kind of enjoy that process. And like you said, I think earlier, you, you mentioned it as a tool, and that's what I really strongly believe is that art is a real tool. It doesn't, or, you know, creative [00:15:00] endeavors are a real tool that whatever kind of expression you choose.
It's a way of helping you to feel better or , the B M X ramps example, you can see how, , you are connecting with others.
You're presumably having loads of fun. You're out in the fresh air. There's so many things that go with it that you would've got out of that. And I just think it's, it's brilliant. On the B M X thing, , do you still make them or was there any time that , you used that skill again?
I did have a project four years ago now, , when I was still working at brothers at the production company.
and we were doing kind of like an extreme sports, series of ads. It was Matt. It was literally like seven year old. Me would've been so happy myself. So we were sold that we were going to Paris with a shoot, right? It was like the s slough of Paris.
We were nowhere near Paris. No offense. Anyone lives in S slough. S Slough's got lovely parts to it. It was a dodgy end Paris. We were on an island in the middle of the sen, the river, a proper little island.
And on this island there's an abandoned waterpark. And then a bunch like maybe [00:16:00] 20 or 30, kind of one to two room cabins where just a really alternative community live on this.
Let you know full-time or part-time live on this little island, completely off grid. You can only get there by like rowing boat or speedboat basically. there's no bridges or roadways to it, so you can't take any vehicles there.
So we were using this abandoned water park as our shoot location. And one of the things we were doing there was filming this kind of world class Red Bull sponsored B m Xer, riding around this abandoned water park.
So we literally were take this three person speedboat across to it from the hotel every day.
And , we realized that for this scene to work, we were shooting, we needed to build a ramp. But we needed a proper, full size quarter pipe for this world-class BM exit to ride. So it was , it was chalk and cheese from what we used to when I was seven,
this was like, we needed like a proper thing, but I was like, yeah, I'll make a, like I can do it. So I basically had 24 hours to build a full size quarter bike, with whatever materials were on the island or that we could get to the island on a [00:17:00] speedboat. And it sounds so ridiculous, but we'd met some guys online who ran a French drone production company and they were doing the drone filming for us of this shoot.
And one of them, happened to. Have a cabin on this island that he was renovating. So he had a bunch of tools that he'd already ferried out there the months before. And it was a big pile of plywood that he was gonna build the house out of essentially. so we just bought some of this wood off him and borrowed his tools and a bunch of screws.
And I actually went on YouTube was like out, would you build a quarter pipe, watch a video for 20 minutes? and then me and one of the other guys were like, yeah, we reckon we could do that. Everyone else go off and do the rest of whatever prep you need to do. We'll spend the next day building this ramp.
And we did. We built a really legit decent quarter pipe. Worldclass B M X was very happy with it.
We then disassembled it, rebuilt it in this abandoned waterpark and then deserted it up. I then gritted it to kinda make it look like it had always been there. ' cause this whole waterpark is graffiti, so it kinda had to look like it [00:18:00] was always part of the, part of the scene.
And then we shot with it and it was perfect. Like it worked really well. The guy nearly hit his head on the ceiling 'cause we made it quite big. But it was pretty, honestly it was that whole week was like, Being paid to do what I spent my entire childhood doing for free. It was amazing. Oh my God, I absolutely love that story. I just, I love the way it comes full circle and I love the kind of shenanigans around like, and how coincidence of , you found that guy and , he was renovating something, it was brilliant.
Was bloody lucky, but there was zero planning involved. It just all, all worked out. I know, I know. God, it's, yeah, it's brilliant. And if you've got a photo then I'll share that in the show notes, but anyone wants to see the half that Adam made
yeah, I've got, we've got a bunch of photos from that shoot, so while, , I've sent them over. Oh, real, , right. so that brings me onto the next question really, which is, , what triggers you to create? The best way I can describe it is I think I get like an itchiness, like a restlessness, where I just have to, I have to go make something.
I actually heard a really good analogy that really resonated with me this morning. Which was a new episode of [00:19:00] Di the CEO e with Steven Bartlett, and he was interviewing what I am, and they had like a big conversation around creativity, and what I'm had this, metaphor that he feels that he's like a sponge.
So he spends a lot of his time soaking up, creative influence and impulse, small sorts of different places and ideas and thoughts and all this stuff all around the world. And like a sponge, when a sponge gets to a certain level of water density, it can't accept anymore in until it's ringed out and emptied.
And for him, that process of ringing the sponge out and emptying it of water is him creating something. So each time he's wring out his sponge, that's him making something. yeah. So almost to your point earlier about do you worry about whether it's good or not? His point was said, relevant to me, whether it's good or not, I absolutely have to wr out my sponge otherwise there's gonna be, you know, I can't take anything else in and there's all these things kind of crashing down the door trying to get into my brain.
And that really resonated with me, the idea that, like, I often feel like I just, I get to a stage where I'm like, I just have to make something. I'm kind of, I get this restlessness that I'm kinda like, oh, I've just seen all these ideas and I've got these things throwing around my head, and I just [00:20:00] wanna make one of 'em.
I wanna one of 'em, one of those, I have to do one of them now. The problem is I have, is that sometimes I let it go on too long. So then kind of that, the feeling of needing to do it get so much, I literally would've gone, right, I'm doing something right now. I'm gonna go make something. And I find the feeling, so overwhelming that I'll just go make anything as fast as possible to try and get rid of the feeling.
And it always ends up being like, shit, like a proper shit bot that, that makes me feel worse. 'cause I'm like, oh, I'm crap. I made a crap thing. I'm only good at creative stuff. How annoying is that? So I try to have like a, almost like a pipeline of things that I'm always working on, a few things at once.
So that one, if I've got lots of kind of projects on, it's easy for me throughout any day just to kind of dip in a little bit to one. So , I'm always ringing out that sponge a little bit. Yeah. Not kind of fully, but like always doing a bit of a, reset as it were. So I can always keep that, feeling at bay, I guess.
The problem I find though is if I, if a probably goes on too long and then just I'm over it and I hate it and I'm like opposite, like I'm bored of it [00:21:00] now. It's been going too long. Finished just almost like off my desk. 'cause if it becomes like a to-do list thing, I'm like, right. Get off my desk.
You're not, you're not helping or you're not fun. Just get it done. . Yeah. And yeah, I really relate to that sponge analogy as well. And, and the thing of like, you kind of like start a creative project, like, woo, this is gonna be great. So, and then it's like, oh God, God. And then at the other end you're like, okay, it is pretty good, but you know, you kind of then want your next fix or that's how I feel.
I'm like, right, I wanna go onto the next one. Yeah. So then you've got like a pipeline of different things bubbling away. Are these like personal projects and, and how do you get your inspiration for all these different creative or artistic expressions? Yeah, all all personal project stuff that is mainly stuff around my house.
Either like jobs that need doing to, we're, we're renovating a two 50 year old house. There's literally always something to do.
I cannot create for blank page. I'm terrible at it. So like to start a project, I need constraints and then reference material.
'cause the almost, for me, the options are endless and that [00:22:00] just blows my mind every time I'm like, no, can't pick one. Dunno what to do. Like I need someone start for me and then I'll finish it. Or kind of someone pick for me and then I'll go and make it.
But the actual process, because I always start a project with reference, right?
So often I just go on Pinterest. To be honest, it's great for it. And just find the stuff I like and then pick one. But I'm making that, the problem is there's so much on there. Yeah. That I'll end up picking 10 I like, but I only need one of them.
And that becomes really. Tricky process of like, how do I whittle it down? And yeah, but , that's a good , like almost creative prompt , 'cause I've heard that so many times that actually you need that kind of parameter. Like, when I paint, , , I don't have endless amounts of colors.
I have a very fixed palette because even with those what eight colors? I can mix far too many. But I mean, there's so many choices, like thousands of choices in one piece of work that you have to limit it. So I think that, I think that's really useful for people to go actually just choose something really simple [00:23:00] as a good starting point , as a way in.
I find it, I find it so much easier to create when there actually is a client and a deadline and a problem you're solving because it like the constraints
there's a t-shirt and jacket company called Painter who make amazing. Clothes. , I've got a nice badge from them that says, on the badge, constraints make you interesting. And I really like, I believe in that. I really think that constraints in the creative process make things better.
I need the kind of the starting point, the reference, the brief so that I can then use that as a way of narrowing possibilities. Yeah, definitely. Because I think, I think there is a bit of a misconception of, oh, you're creative and you kind of, I would go around thinking of random stuff and it's all really random, but actually it kind of, because of the, fear and all of the kind of wrangling that happens when you are trying to create something I think you sort of need, you need that, you need to add some kind of sharp points in somewhere so you kind of narrow it down and then you can get that kind of momentum, like that [00:24:00] oomph to get you into the, you know, over the line to be able to either start, keep going or, or finish it.
So I I totally relate to that. I think it's really useful for people for us to talk about that it's a bit of direction, isn't it? Like I think in, like you, without knowing some level of like a, we're going that way in whatever that way is. , you end up just floating around and I really need that.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. 'cause and I think that's important, isn't it? You know, your style of creativity, your way in is to start with something and then adapt it and build on it, shape it how you want it.
Whereas other people might be okay with starting from a relatively blank canvas and then find, something that they want to do. So almost, I'm a big fan of the creative brief, so when I used to marketing, I was always like, right, the brief is like golden and make sure you're really clear with what you're asking.
Like a creative agency to do, for example, And I still find myself, almost briefing myself now because I have to have those parameters. So I, yeah, I [00:25:00] completely relate to that. That's a really nice idea.
I like that. I might take that idea of like, if it's a self project, actually brief yourself. Do you do it like a physical, like would you write it down? How'd you do it? Yeah, sometimes I do write it down just to, I find that writing has been really strong for me in terms of like clearing through a creative block.
So I go through this thing of , it's almost like I just, I, I get really kind of tense and in my head like you were describing, and , I know there's something about to almost be born , but I can't articulate it. And so I get really grumpy for a couple of days.
Then I remember that I need to write and then I write it down until literally like, you know, Julia Cameron in the Artist Way, the book that basically the main thing is like, she talks about morning pages and how you should write three pages and she does it for different reasons. But essentially I took the nugget of that and was like, right, I'm just gonna write and write and write until it suddenly reveals itself. And so I kind of write to clear it. And then through writing it, I've almost basically created my own brief. I go from [00:26:00] there. Sometimes I do it handwritten. Sometimes I, I write on the computer, but there's been times when I think I'm writing a blog post and actually I've written a brief.
I like that it sort of comes out really. But I highly recommend writing just for and not knowing where it's gonna go. Just writing it really helps. Yeah, I think that's a really cool idea that kind of, it's a way of getting your thoughts out on paper. There's some concept about the reason it's good to say things out loud and not just think them. So the reason that therapy works to some extent, or just talking to a friend, is because the part of your brain that hears your internal monologue is different to the part of your brain, that hears sound.
So if you think something versus if you, even if you're just in a room on your own and say that out loud, a different part of your brain receives that information. So there's different parts of your brain than working on that information. I feel like that same concept to some extent, maybe works when you write things down.
And therefore, by getting that brief out of your head onto a piece of paper, it's not [00:27:00] just this thought of, I'm gonna go make a whatever. It's actually, here's, I've really had to think about it. I've had to focus my thoughts and write 'em down. Because often, you know, you know, it's like when you think about anything, Other thoughts jump in in the way and you kinda scramble off in one direction, another direction.
And it's really hard to think very clearly without recording that thought in some way. Yeah, definitely. Maybe like the writing it down is part of the process of learning what you actually want. Yeah. And I, I love that whole thing about the difference in your head, and then when you say out loud, the different parts of the brain.
I, when I was like working in, , the world of, business, I would always, have certain people, a couple of people who I would call up and go, can I just talk, things through with you a minute, just because I'm really grappling with this and I just can't quite get clear.
And I think that's probably what I was trying to do. And that's probably why the writing really helps me. Because at the moment it doesn't, well, I can't call someone up and go, yeah, I'm just thinking, I mean, I subvert fairytales, so like calling someone up and like talking to them about a fairytale, they're just like, [00:28:00] what are you, what are you on?
They've got no point of reference there. So, but writing it down helps massively for me to kind of choose how I'm gonna do it. , I think that's a, really interesting point as a, a, maybe a good one for. People trying to get into being creative as well. Like if people, if there's some people who don't think they're creative or, you know, not creative enough, or they're trying to exercise that muscle of creativity, actually recording it in some, and like, whatever you would know if, if you're, if you like writing, write it down.
If you like talking, then voice note yourself. whatever it is, the, you know, type on your phone, whatever, like some kind of level of recording an idea. If you like images. Then collect a bunch of images from Pinterest and Instagram and magazines or whatever and like scrapbook them.
Like whatever your way is of getting the idea out of your head onto a piece of paper so you can look at it again and go, yeah, that's the thing that, that's the thing I need. That's what I'm looking for. That is right. Or maybe actually it's not quite right. I'm gonna tweak this, tweak that, that's quite a nice way of flexing that muscle of creativity. Yeah. I'm a massive that's a voice note. [00:29:00] I think that's such a useful thing. And also like the notes app. And I was listening to a podcast, it was an interview with Rishi k Hiway, who's the, the creator of song Exploder, one of my favorite podcasts.
And he was saying , if he was to choose any kind of creative tools that he would hold up. As, as like really important to, to this century. It is the notes app and the voice note because , they capture creativity or artistic inspiration in the moment. You don't have to set up any equipment and 'cause it's so fleeting, those moments of like, oh, capture it.
You know, it, they're, they're there and they're gone. And if you don't capture it, then and there I often find that you, you know, you, you've just gotta do it. I often pull over the side of the road. I'm like, right. Gotta write that down. Or gotta gotta record that. Exactly.
I'm exactly the same, although I don't pull over. Sorry, I should, I should pull over. You should hopefully just a voice note. Always know that. Don't tell the police. Yeah, I, so I use the notice app mainly on my phone. so there's about six years since I started doing it.[00:30:00]
And any idea I get, I just put in there whether it's kind of an idea for a business, an idea for a project, a creative thing. It's just like, Chuck in this one thing and it's literally, it's called ideas. So I've got ideas 1, 2, 3, and four notes that it's just, and it's a monologue and it's mainly recorded and maybe there's a thing about like.
Know that when you're in a shower, you got your ideas. Like, I find it when I'm driving or I'm out walking or running Yep. Like doing something else that's moving, but mindless. Yeah. And that allows another part my brain to start thinking about and processing stuff.
That's when all how the ideas come to me. So they're always recorded with the voice recorder thing, that kind of voice to type. So when I read 'em back, they're always like, they make no sense because it's whatever my phone's interpretation of what I was trying to shout at it was in whatever noisy environment I was doing it in.
So they're always take a bit of translating and remembering what hell I was on about. I like, I love that just like, just a monologue. Just like, like just dump all the ideas in there and go back to them as and when and see, see what got like, same with that's what Pinterest is. Great.
Like I have a, a board in my Pinterest that's just called cool stuff that I'm just, kinda like [00:31:00] anything I said, there's almost no point to it. It is just anything that I like where I see it in real life. I sit online, screenshot, I take a photo, stick it in that, just so I know I've got more in one place for the future.
Like if I ever, like, what was that thing? Yeah. But what you do end up doing by doing that is you end up having a picture of your taste. So there's that discernment that you kind of, yeah, you're looking for stuff. But actually it's a really useful, I, I know visual artists who do this as an exercise.
There's like, if you kind of like, I don't know, creatively blocked about what you're gonna paint next. They will kind of go on this like rampage tree, Pinterest kinda rule that. And then they're like, oh, what's the commonalities? And you do notice , oh, I tend to be going for the color red. Or , there's some gold twists in this, or, you know, the theme might be of butterflies coming through or whatever it might be.
You, you just gradually start to see some kind of theme and it talks back to you. that's a really cool, I've never thought about doing it, but I like that rampage idea. That's really cool. I, I do it[00:32:00] kind of slowly throughout all the time, but that idea of kinda like, I need to start a project. I need someone to start, I need some reference.
And then going on a reference rampage, that's a really, I love that idea. That's a really cool concept. Also reference rampage. Love. Bit of alliteration. That's nice. Love it. I had a lecturer at uni called Jerry Leon Artist. And one of the things he told us was that we had to be like squirrels.
And his idea is that a squirrel spends their life collecting nuts and hiding them away for a rainy day, basically for time they'll need them. And he says that we need to be like the kind of creative squirrels.
So we basically need to be open to seeing these creative nuts. So like wherever, whatever situation you're in, you need to be aware that there is reference you could be taking in and absorbing. You need to always be looking for those things and then stor 'em away somewhere for when you need reference.
Adam: , what has creating things, what has it taught you about yourself? I think that probably the biggest thing is that I've realized that I'm a very empathetic person. I feel like empathy allows me to [00:33:00] feel lots of other people's emotions and ideas and thoughts towards stuff, and then take that in as reference as well.
And then on the flip side of it, what really helps me to understand how people will react to something I make so , I find it very easy to put myself in lots of people's shoes
and from a creative point of view that, you know, changes the things I make or how I make things.
Yeah. Also, because I cry basically every film in the world, , I'm, I'm there with you. Yeah. I
I do think that there's an element of some people are really thick-skinned but I think when, you are using your creativity, there's an element that you, do have to let things through.
, and I've often wondered in the last couple of years, is creativity a way that you can kind of flip between those two states that is really healing because , okay, you might have to be quite thick skin for your job, , but then if you kind of flex that muscle of creativity, it might help you to get better balance.
'cause the problem with me is I let the creative element go completely. That was to , the detriment of my own health, [00:34:00] which, I would never do again. And that's again why I think it's really useful to kind of help people to understand how they can try little bits of it.
Yeah, I think that's a, that's a really interesting point.
Can you tell me, , about a time when creativity helped heal you or bring you clarity?
The most, , Obvious one, the most recent one has been this year for me. , so my mom died just before Christmas. , I'd already lost my dad five years ago. My brother-in-law died a couple of years ago, so I kinda had a lot, a lot of kind of deep sadness with our family. , and when my mom died end of last year, I just hit like, complete burnout.
Like, it just, it, it was kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back kind of thing. Like it floored me. , and it wasn't 'cause like the lack of creative had a creative job where I was a film producer. I spent all day, every day creating stuff, whether it was creative problem solving, or actually going out and making films.
, but I just was com. Like I kind of, I ran out a com completely burnout, , and kind of just lost [00:35:00] my, like, I wasn't myself anymore. , the start of this year, I didn't have the mental capacity to create, to think to,
like I forgot what food I liked eating and how to cook those things. , and what I enjoyed and how I liked spending my time. And so I kind of, so I stepped down from my company, , and just decided to take some extended time off. To rebuild myself and to kind of, to heal basically. , and try and get back to where I used to like get back to the me I used to be, or, I mean, that's, that's a whole different conversation actually, because I think there's, I think when someone dies, you change permanently, so it's impossible to get back to used be.
I wanted to be as close as possible back to where I was before, basically, whilst understanding that my world was very different. And a big part of how I did that was through creativity. , and I did it through like, doing work around my house and just like lots of woodwork. But I really enjoy woodwork as you've probably gathered. And I really find woodwork itself very cathartic as a process. I think what's quite slow, , it's very kinda [00:36:00] like, , in, into like I dore my own, I'm in kind of in my garage, listen to a podcast, listen to some music and just kind of. Go at it for hours on end.
And I find that kinda a very relaxing, cathartic process. , and lots of the elements of woodworking are actually just quite monotonous tasks, which I find quite relaxing. ,
and that's kind of, that's really helped me this year is just spending some time just on my own making stuff. And really what, the way it helped is because I was processing thoughts, right?
So it was this, for the same reason that you have ideas in the shower because you're doing a mindless task that allows your brain to do something else. Or when you, when you go for a run or go for a drive, 'cause you're doing something that allows a different part of your brain to start processing other thoughts that are going on.
It did the exact same thing for me. So I was doing at times long, mindless task. Like sanding, for example, I might have eight hours of sanding to do. That's just kinda my mindless back and forth task, which is enough of a distraction for a certain part of my brain that a different part of my brain could then start working on the [00:37:00] problems I had, , and start thinking through and processing my mom's death.
And that, that really, really helped me this year to kind of get back to. To being me that and like some exercise and a healthy diet, which I was also massively lacking both of.
Yeah, no, I love that story. And I'm so sorry to hear about your loss with your mom and your dad and your brother-in-law. That's really, really terrible, run of, , events. I totally relate to that, monotony of making, like there's certain bits of painting like, I dunno, hair or sometimes the background or something.
There's just like a big sway of , night sky or whatever it is. And it's not like painting the eyes or something. It is actually you're just, it is a bit mindless. , and I love that bit as well. There's certain bits where I just don't listen to podcasts or anything.
And that's when you, you can get those thoughts and there's just something about seeing it unfold in front of you. And I really like the way that you talked about it in the context of also eating well , and exercise. [00:38:00] Because I do think that we often talk a lot about the importance of wellness and eating well, exercise, it's like the common things that you would say when people aren't well. There's obviously art therapy, but I think just that general accessible, making things around the home or doing a little project, it doesn't have to be specifically art or anything.
, that sounds a little bit like it's got a barrier between you and, and it. I think that's just really helpful way of adding that into the mix of, helping you feel well.
Yeah. I also think that the word art and creativity are kind of inextricably links, right? But they're, they're actually really different things. , like art is one form of creativity, but it is like, I think incorrectly, often used interchangeably almost. , and I think creativity has the ability to be real good healer for everyone to help you get into that process of, of thinking and processing your thoughts.
Anyone can be [00:39:00] creative. It's more kind of, how you use that to then help yourself. Yeah. Once you understand that there are benefits to be had. It's like, well, why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you get, what, what's the, no one's gonna like, you don't have to get into like, some kind of art gallery or be up for some kind of award it's just back to enjoying the process and, and what you get out of the process. So yeah, I'll, , I'll happily say that and , I'm so hypocritical because at the same time I'm continually worried about , am I any good? Is this any good? Is the thing I'm making any good?
Or is the idea any good? The downside of the internet, , is that you can see everyone else's creativity, right? And you can see how much better everyone else is than you. And that really sucks because , like, I'm never gonna be the best creative in literally any field that I try and go for.
I'm not my best because there's 8 billion other people given it a go as well.
Exactly. And remembering that people who are sharing stuff on social media, they're showing the best of what they've done. It's not V one. Yeah. It's not V one where you see the [00:40:00] whole messy, I mean, let's get, let's be honest, it is a total mess, like creating stuff.
It is messy. I think there's a massive misconception, , that like the best creative people.
just have an idea and then they do it. But first time they've nailed it. First time done.
Everyone who's good. Make shit work and probably makes more shit work than it make good work because the process of creativity is keeping, making shit stuff until you accidentally make a good thing. And I go, oh, I meant to do that and then show it. That's, that's the process, right, if the thing you made is bad, it's just not finished right?
It's just, it's an iteration towards the next thing, right?
Yeah, exactly. That's the process it's iteration. I guess what we're saying is the important nugget is you've just got to be up for it. You've got to just throw yourself into it and just be up for it.
And , there's a constant grapple between wanting it to be really good and then enjoying the process, but just being willing to give it a go. there's that beautiful cliche of, it's the, [00:41:00] it's the journey, not the destination. So I love a cliche. The reason I love a cliche is that the definition of a cliche, this might not be the Oxford definition, it's the pub definition, but the definition of cliche is that it's something that's so true.
It's been said so many times. It's kind of embarrassing or awkward and stupid that we still haven't remembered it. That's what cliches, right? Like if you, if you take that definition, apply it to any common cliche, it works
and it's the journey, not the destination is a great example on those. 'cause there's almost no one who disagrees with that yeah.
It's a horrible cliche bumper sticker and speaking of the journey, we're now ready to get to your second creation. So can you share what your second creation is please? Yes I can. Alright, so, it's the films, how to lose a guy in 10 days and what women want and they're my collective creation too. Which as a collective are films about men in advertising. brilliant. Brilliant. It's funny because , my first ever proper job, , was for Revlon Cosmetics.
Mm-hmm. Revlon Cosmetics were one of the companies that sponsored how to Lose a guy in 10. Really? [00:42:00] I went to the premier in London. I love that. Completely random. Yeah. That's fantastic. The connection to that film. That's brilliant. yeah, so like, the reason that those are my number two, , is that my main memory of both those films was thinking I could do that job that looks really fun and I reckon I'd be good at that.
and for me, advertising and marketing, when I saw those films, I was like, that's kind of the intersection of the two things I'm good at at school is art and economics.
It was this like realization, like this huge realization, almost like in a, what women want lightning bolt kind of fashion. Like I could do that job. and I really believe in that concept of you can't see it, you can't be it.
so I didn't know that those jobs existed as a kid. My dad was a dentist, my mom was a doctor. Everyone else in my family was teachers.
The traditional stuff. , so those two films are the first times that I learned that creative jobs existed that weren't like being a movie star or being a singer, , so I think they had this like, just massive impact on my life where I was like, maybe I should do that.
Like maybe I should spend my life doing that.[00:43:00] , and I then found, actually found out about a year after that, that my best friend's dad actually owned a marketing agency. I had no idea because my friend didn't know what his dad did.
And I was like, oh look, an adult who, , I know who's real, who does a job.
That's a bit like the people in those films do. And then it all started kind of coming together for me that that was a, a thing that was possible, a route that was possible. , I took a really non-direct, wiggly way of getting there. But that really is why I ended up working in, in the kind of wider marketing advertising creative industries, because those two films showed me they existed and they made it look really fun as well.
Can you explain that wiggly path then that you mentioned?
So although I'd kind of discovered this marketing E jobs, I still in my mind thought that the way of having a creative job for me was probably gonna be being an artist.
So I spent all my time painting, and I kind of figured that I'd just go to Goldsmith do a degree in painting and then become a painter, and that would be my job.
so I got myself some work experience with Damien Hurst, [00:44:00] which was an absolute coup. I was probably 16 maybe, and I went to my cousin's wedding and her maid of honor was his receptionist or something ridiculous, or his pa And I was, I guess must have a very confident 16 year old, , because literally went up to the bar and I was like, I heard you work at Damon House.
I'd like to get some work experience, please. And amazingly she agreed to it and she was like, yeah, email me after the wedding. Like, we'll see what we can do. I did and I did, and it worked.
, so I did two or three weeks working in Voxel, , at Damien Hurst's gallery studio, basically. , and it blew my mind that he didn't do any bloody painting at all. So he basically leaves in, , concept over craft. So like, he believes that the idea is the most important thing and actually how it gets put together is kind of irrelevant.
And it turns out actually like so many of the great painters of. The last multiple hundreds of years weren't doing all their own paintings. Like Da Vinci wouldn't be, you know what I was saying earlier about like painting the hair, way more boring than painting the eyes.
Like they wouldn't paint the backgrounds. They've got an apprentice for that shit. It's boring, . They'd paint like the good bits. Dam Hurst basically took that [00:45:00] concept to an extreme. So I was in this studio with 10, 15 other, graduate artists who, in varying levels of ability and skill and seniority would create his paintings for him.
And he'd come along at the end, maybe do a few little bits. He really liked doing a touch up and then stick the sandwich on it, out the door, sell it. , it blew my mind that like one, this was the first time I'd seen like firsthand, like commercial creativity, and to me, like Damon Hurst, was an idol at mine at the time.
Like I did my whole g s e thesis on him. , I loved his style, I loved his painting, everything. , and to see how he was creating was really interesting. And that it was like a team sport, right? It wasn't just him locked away a room painting days on day.
It's like he was barely ever there. I only met him three times. , and that kinda really opened my eyes.
, so I then for the rest of my time at school, I changed to trying to create like him.
So I kind of got this idea in my head that it was all about just like smashing stuff out. So by the time we gotta to the end of school,
I was like banging out like four flower paintings a weekend, stick in the gallery, try and sell.
My thought [00:46:00] process was all around the commerciality of it. It eventually ended up ruining painting for me because , I wasn't doing it anymore.
'cause I loved doing it I was doing it just to smash another one out to try and sell it, because I thought that's what being an artist was. So I kind of, then I really fell out of love with art entirely. So then I decided to lean into the business side of things instead.
So then I got a job as an estate agent, loved it for a couple of years until I realized there was no creativity in my life anymore.
and I'd lost all of that creative input or excitement. That's stuff I actually loved doing. I just forgotten. I loved it because I'd lost my way a little bit.
So I decided I was gonna. Quit this job. And go and do graphic design at uni, I basically remembered those films and I was like, oh, let get back, like back into that creative industry, advertising, marketing, let's go there
'cause I'd realized that I preferred the, business mix of it.
And that's where kind of marketing ended up being like that perfect middle ground for me. It's like, it is the mix of sales and creative basically. And I wonder like, 'cause there is that difference between creating things for your own personal [00:47:00] projects, but then that commercial creativity.
What is it about commercial creativity that still seems to, light you up? I think that for me, the commercial side of it, those are the restraints, right?
The idea of starting like go make a film, I'm like, well why? What about when, how? And that for me is terrifying.
For some people that's like, is exactly what they want. It's like they live for that. Like, that would be the dream brief and spend their entire life trying to find it. For me, it's, I hate that. Like, I, I can't operate in that environment I've always said it 'cause I'm not good enough. Like I'm not creative enough to be able to do that.
For me, that is a, like a heightened level of creativity that I don't have, that other people do have. , I dunno if that's true or not. I dunno if that's being, , too harsh for myself where it's just different styles of creativity as opposed to a, a scale from good to bad. I'm not sure. But the reason I like commercial creativity, like kind of working within a commercial environment is 'cause it is those constraints.
It's the, it's the rules you have to follow. Whether those [00:48:00] constraints are budget brief, the thing that they want you to make to. Sell something, , timeline, which was yesterday. Like the, all those things, like all those constraints for me create elements on that blank page that are a starting block for me to go from.
Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. I think , it's interesting though that you still return to your woodworking and you still do creative things at home. , , there was a quote again from Rishi k Hiway that I heard the other day, and it was just really succinct and really nice, and it just said, art is for me, design is for them.
, and I just really like that. 'cause I was like, actually, yeah, and again, art in the loosest possible sense, but essentially there's, there's, there's a personal version and then there's one that you do to an official brief that's for them. And you kind of, , with the design element, you're compromising some of your own artistic license , or sometimes a lot of it.
, but there's still something, you're still creating something you can still point at it and go, me and, and the team probably made that. , yeah. Yeah. I, [00:49:00] I really agree with that. I think that's, I really like that phrase is really nice. Yeah. But because design, for me, I, so I always define design as problem solving.
, and you're right in that using your, , that kind of phrasing is. Kind of design is for them, it's because they've come, who are they as they've come with a problem to solve. So you've designed a solution, whether that solution is a film or a poster or a piece of software where it's like you've created a solution to that problem.
Whereas the art element is that, again, the arc be a painting or a piece of music but like the art is the, I did it for me. 'cause it has to let it out if you happen to like it.
And that makes me money. Brilliant. But, but I mean, I don't, I'm not a musician. I don't know. I doubt there's a lot of songs are created off the back of a record label going, we've got a brief for you. We want a song that is liked by, , girls and boys from the age of 14 to 24. , we'd like it to be , up from a maximum of two and a half minutes.
, we want it to be piano and guitar and we want it by [00:50:00] Friday. Like, I don't think that's how music's made. It's probably the difference between like, Pop Idol or like, you know, , well it's called manufactured bands, isn't it?
Especially like in the nineties, that was classic. Whereas you've got then, like the rawness of, music making and the kind of ups and downs of, of all of that process.
, which is messier really. The, the manufactured is like the sanitized version which there's something that gets lost in that, for me anyway, personally, it is so sanitized, , that you lose the feeling. Yeah. There's this concept in filmmaking of the director's cut,
It's basically like, this is what I wanted to make, for, from a creative point of view, this is what I think this should be. Whereas the thing that comes out ends up being the thing that the people paying for it, wanted to help sell whatever it's they were trying to sell, which is the reason they made you make the thing in the first place.
Yeah. And neither is wrong, right? They're just both from almost from different briefs.
Yeah, exactly. And I saw in my career, like you see like the wranglings between creative directors and marketeers and, and it's just like, [00:51:00] and it's what success looks like to the different individuals. So what successes Yes.
The client and then what it looks like to when, when they get into like the creative juices flowing of their creative vision is not necessarily gonna be able to be realized and simultaneously fulfill the brief of the, the client. So I think that that's where you get tension. I can think of an example where I would imagine it's probably a bit closer together at like a Christmas ad where, you know, the classic John Lewis Christmas ad or something like that where there's much more inbuilt in motion.
Naturally. They're not trying to, they're obviously trying to sell something eventually, but it's not necessarily the primary , takeout from the, from the creative execution. Yeah. That, you know what? I've never thought about it. That's a really interesting, I think that's a really is a good example.
I'm like, I'm sure, I'm sure there is a director's cut of every Christmas I've ever made. Oh yeah. Because which director doesn't wanna have the best version of it? ' Yeah. I liked your idea that it was actually, it's that kinda like [00:52:00] mis it's just a misalignment of expectations.
Right? It's the, what does your version of success look like? , in the Director's Cup, the success of the director is the artistically most creative thing. Whereas success of the brand is, does it sell the most what you're trying to sell? , not always. A lot of like ad content and films are made to push a brand along, which isn't necessarily about directly selling something.
But even within that, you still get that same, that misalignment because the brand's trying to connect to the brand's kind of truth or essence of what it's trying, like you say, propelling that brand along and like having certain associations with the brand.
Whereas then you've got the director's cup, which has probably gone deep into a human truth and wants to kind of mine that. Creativity harder. , but it doesn't necessarily connect back up to the brand. So I think it's, it's working at like, it's almost like working at different levels of, of depth. , yeah.
Yeah. I think this, like, that concept happens across all like commercial creativity, right? That's why you need things like directors cut, so you can [00:53:00] then be like, well, yeah. This is back to what we talked about earlier about kind of needing the creative expression. Like it's a, a release of their ideas.
It's kind of wanting to get their thoughts into the world. Sometimes you have to make a director's cut to show what you wanted out of it and to get what you needed out of it almost. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. Yeah, definitely.
To get what you needed out of it, it's like you've just got to express that part. And that's hard to do in a 32nd ad. Like, so there's gonna be some kind of choices made, so, yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good idea to have director's cuts. 'cause then it kind of feels like then you, everybody does get what they need.
, right. This takes us on to the third and final creation, Adam, so can you share your third creation piece? Yes, I can. And in, exact contradiction to what we were just talking about. , this was a film project that I did work on that we didn't do a director's cutoff. 'cause the brand gave us so much freedom.
They literally let us do what we wanted. So the thing we made was the director's cut, which is great. , so this actually for Salka, the bag company that I, showed the bag [00:54:00] of at the start. , so we basically, when I was at brother, , worked in the same building as the guys around Salka.
, became good friends with them and decided that it'd be really fun to make them an ad. , so we kind of, we went to them and said, we'd like to make you an ad. Would you, would you like one? Please let us make it. , we'll create the budget between us. And we'll put all our time in for free.
You guys put your time in and let's just make, make a call thing. , and they loved the idea and we had, complete creative freedom. So we can then make a thing that we're so proud of. We can then take it to lots of other companies as a reference film to be like, look, we've made this, this is how good we are. We'd like us to make one for you , we'll have a bunch of fun and then they'll get an ad that a company their size wouldn't normally have to afford.
Everyone wins. , and , it was just an incredible project we had. The most amazing team on it. Like everyone was brilliant and so much fun and so nice and like created such a nice environment for the week. , they had an old VW transporter camper ban. , like a 1987, , [00:55:00] camper that was like painted up in their brand colors.
The thing they drove to like trade shows and to fairs and stuff to like sell the bags out. Brilliant. Let's make a film around that. Let's drive it to Wales to just beautiful countryside and just have a great week in the outdoors. We all love the outdoors. We all love creating things on almost on the fly and like not a load of planning.
, and this is gonna make this amazing thing. , so we basically did like a deep dive into fan life. What's happening in the world of fan life and camping and people living outta transport, all that kinda stuff. , and this one thing we kept seeing was people taking these shots out of the back of their transport with a boot open legs in shot.
Like, look how nice my breakfast spot is. Look how nice my camping spot is. Look at the sea. Like whatever it was, it was like that shock. Kinda like out the back doors, over just whatever beautiful scenario they're in. , basically everyone's selling the life of come live in a van like we do. We've really liked that.
We love that, like that visual of like brilliant, we can really tap into that [00:56:00] community if we speak in that same visual language. So we then had the idea of, well, let's take film camera, literally bolt it to the floor of this van. So the guys installed a wooden floor, like a plywood floor into the van so we could then screw into it.
So we screw a tribe onto it, fix the camera. Like right, we won't touch the camera for the entire week. Brilliant benefits of that makes our job so much easier. We're not have a dick about, with all the stuff that slows you down the shoots with all the kind of settings in front of the right angles, all this kinda stuff.
Like the camera can't move, we're not allowed to move it. And what was saying earlier, like constraints, right? Fix the camera. We'll get two actors to come and play the roles of a couple on a holiday. Now let's just go on this holiday with them right in this van.
Couple of follow cards to fit the rest of the people on the rest of the kit in it. And let's just go and have a really, really fun week away in Wales as if we are just like, fly on the wall of this couple on a camping holiday. , we'll subtly interject the bags into some of these scenes, , but not like, it's not be too much in your face.
We're gonna be [00:57:00] filming them having fun. We're gonna sell the lifestyle of living out of a camper. One of the things you need in that scenario is a bag. The bag will be involved occasionally. And the reason it's here is 'cause it's, it, the film I'm most proud of having like, of everything, probably thousands of films over kind of my time, my brother in production.
, and this is the one I'm most proud of. It was the most fun to make. , the team is incredible. Locators are incredible. The thing we made at the end was brilliant. Like, that's one of the best things we've ever made as a, as a commercially successful ad. It's really successful. It's done a really good job for them.
And it's one of the things that gets, you know, we've found, we get the most comments off it. People kind of emailing in or texting us or getting in touch on Instagram saying like, saw this, this thing was great, can you make us one? , and the brand loved it. And, you know, years later, they're still using kind of bits of content from that shoot as their ongoing campaigns. 'cause it just, it worked really well. Yeah. And yeah, I just, I I absolutely loved it. I had basically, I had the best time, a really nice camping [00:58:00] hall with my mates. We made a really good ad out of it and it's one of the best, best work we've ever done.
And it was like a proper ticked every box thing. Yeah, it's brilliant. Obviously all the creations will be in the, in the show notes, so you'll be able to watch the video, but it's so well done. And I'm really glad you explained how you did the camera. 'cause I was like watching it going.
It doesn't move. And that now I know why. Because you literally screwed it or bolted it. You screwed to the floor.
And then the two guys who own salcon cooked for us the entire week.
They were like shallow hosts for the entire week. , because again, money saving, . Let's throw that in the pot. Everyone's gonna be working 14 hour days and gonna be hungry all the time. And they were just incredible hosts for the, the week.
We then gave ourselves a constraint of the camera not moving, , which is the best thing we did, right? 'cause it, that whole success, that film is based off this one fixed angle. That's why it's so good. But that constraint meant that we had to be really creative in what we were doing. ' we were trying to show a wide variety of outdoor activities and outdoor fun. But you never leave the van. So if our, if our point of view never leaves the van, how do we show lake [00:59:00] swimming and mountain biking and camping and surfing and all these different things like hiking?
, and that constraint was really good 'cause we ended up coming up with all like hundreds of mini scenes. And
there's a lot in there and there's a lot more that didn't make it in. What we created this mini scenes of the start and or end of an activity. So you, you get to see them do the thing through the little moments of.
Respite or pause or set up or pack down of the activity itself. , we're really lucky with locations and the guard working with us , was our local fixer to find all these different spots where you actually could, see them go paddle boarding because find a spot, we could park the van, you could see down the river.
So actually you could see them kind of paddle off down the river in the distance, but really the whole film is about, , you as the viewer fill in the gaps and
you just get to see these teenage little moments at the start and end of all these activities and you can fill in the gaps yourself. , and it, yeah, that kind of restraint worked really well. Yeah, no, it's really good. And it come, it comes across. It's a really great film. I definitely recommend people watch it.
, so I [01:00:00] guess that brings me to, , one of the last questions, Adam, which is Yes. , what would happen if I said to you that you need to stop creating? How would you feel? What would you lose? Uh, well that's hard. ,
The reason I do create stuff is 'cause . I don't feel like there's any other option. Like I feel like I absolutely have to create stuff , otherwise I get this like unbearable, eventually unbearable, restlessness.
, I, I don't know how I'd survive without creating stuff. And like, I think creativity can be anything. Like from making a physical thing, just having an idea, right?
, so I dunno how you're gonna stop me from making stuff, because you can tie my hands, but you can't stop me thinking. , but it's, yeah, I, I don't, without being unnecessary, dramatic, I honestly dunno how I'd go about living in the world well, I think it's just an element of like, it sustains you and I, I completely understand that because.
, it's a way of life, but also it kind of nourishes you and it helps you to feel alive, helps you feel fully alive and without it, you know, I definitely don't function [01:01:00] well. , and I know I need to eat well, I need to go for a run each week. And if I don't have certain types of things sleep well, it's just one of those things that I feel like I have to do.
And it sounds like it's quite similar from your point. Yeah. I, I honestly think I go mad. Like it's, for me it's like, it's part of a healthy diet. Yeah. Is a natural, think about it like, it's a, if your, your body and your mind needs certain things like you just said to, to create a healthy life .
And for me, creativity is one of those ingredients that I need to have a, a healthy, happy life. Brilliant. So I'd like to say congratulations, Adam. You have made it through the forest, you've illuminated the path, but all the way to the end. So I can now confirm that you are an art after dark Illuminati.
So, woo. Do I get a badge? Yeah, I'll go, I'll go and whip one up actually. That's a good idea. So yeah. I'll stick on the bag. It's a good brief. Yeah. Yeah. Next to the Caribbean. , so as such, there are two duties that you have to fulfill before we end the [01:02:00] podcast.
Yeah. Is to help people to understand how can they just get a little taste of the creativity that you really enjoy? and then the second one is, have you got any guests that you would recommend that I speak to who would be willing to come and share their stories with me in the forest?
Okay. Amazing. So, , how could you experience creativity? The thing that I enjoy a moment a lot is woodworking.
, so I have two project ideas that I think if anyone wants to get into woodworking then two good options for that are either making a welly boot hook or a bath tray, which I appreciate. Sounds weird, but no, nothing.
I think I, I feel like I need both of those things. They're both essentially super easy to make, but they're just one plank of wood is the reality. That's why I think it's a great starting project. A bath tray. So be as simple as one piece of wood that sit the bath done.
So if you get a rectangular wood that's the width of your bath or wider, you've now got a bath tray. You can then make it slightly better by stopping it from falling out, by putting some [01:03:00] stoppers on it. So if you put the stoppers just on the inside of where it would sit in your bath, then it can't go too far left and it can't go too far.
Right because it's got stoppers that will stop it from falling off the edge. That, that's as simple as what It's one rectangular wood with two little rectangles underneath it to stop it going left and right.
Done. And do it out of an old bit of scrap because one, if it goes wrong, you won't feel bad about it.
'cause just it's secondhand scrap wood. And also there's no need to kind of buy or use new wood when old wood's just as good often actually better because the quality of old wood is often better than. Newer stuff. , and what's really expensive nowadays
so that's a really good one. And the wellie boot hook is exactly the same. It's just, it's, maybe it's slightly more advanced 'cause it's a little bit more cutting. , but another great one where you just basically need aer rectangle, cut a triangle down the top, get rid of that bit. That's where your boot goes in, that's what pulls it out.
And you need some way of standing up. It's exactly like this skate ramps I was making when I was seven. It's just a bit of wood like that with a thing in it for your boots and then something to hold it up. So again, you can [01:04:00] put a, you can put a brick under it, you can lean it just as a flat face on a step to your door.
You've got a stone under it. You can get a bit of wood and drill it and attach it or glue it, something to hold it up as a little foot. It can be a rectangle, it could be too little feet like that, all sorts of options. But it's just, it's basically just a rectangle, split it and then something to hold it up.
Stick your boot in there, pulls off. Brilliant.
You could do the whole thing. With just a saw and a drill, I'd say, , it's a nice easy thing to get into it and , to start enjoying the process , because it basically, it's just, it's sanding and varnishing. If you want to varnish it or paint it or wax it or don't leave it, just cut it and sand it or don't sand it if you want it rough.
Like there's, there's so many different levels you can skill up , depending on how much time you wanna put into it. But also you can just get to learn the enjoyment of quite simple monotonous tasks that allow you just to dive into your thoughts and think. I think that's brilliant.
That's a really, they're really good projects there. So, yeah. Thanks. , and then the second one, who should I speak to? Yes, I've actually got two for you on this one as well. , Rory Landon down and Harry Shaw.[01:05:00] , so both people I know from kind of filmmaking world. , Harry is a director, producer, writer all around.
Absolute legend for man. , and Rory is a director photographer, d o p. , again, both, two of the nicest people I know, , brilliant filmmakers, both really interesting projects, , that I think you'll really, you'll really like talking to them. Brilliant. I can't wait. Wow.
I'm sure. , there'll be an absolute delight if you're recommending them. It'll be, it'll be a pleasure to talk to them. So thank you so much for all of your wisdom and insight and accompanying me through the forest today. Adam, it's been an absolute joy.
Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it. I'm glad. Well thank you and we'll see you next time for the next episode of our After Duck. Bye bye.
Louise: I really hope that you've enjoyed our conversation in the forest today. Remember to tag me on socials@artafterdark.co. If you've been inspired to create or to share any thoughts on this episode I'd absolutely love to hear from you and to see what you've been [01:06:00] up to.
You can find all images and details of the creations we discuss in the show notes on my website, louise emily.com.